Extreme weather and environmental events are becoming part of everyday operations for facility managers. Holley Henderson and Dr. Mark Wilson discuss how resilience, exposure science and proactive planning can help organizations better protect people, buildings and business continuity.
Disaster planning is no longer reserved for rare emergencies. It's becoming a core part of facility management.
In this episode, IFMA's Director of Knowledge and Insights, Dr. Matt Tucker is joined by Holley Henderson and Dr. Mark Wilson of Chemical Insights to discuss how extreme weather, wildfires and cascading disasters are changing the role of facility managers. Together, they explore exposure science, building resilience, chemical hazards after disasters and why today's facility managers are making critical decisions with limited information.
Timestamps:
Holley Henderson: [00:00:00] FMs are actually having to make real-time decisions, like in real time with limited data.
They don't have the full data. They don't have the full picture. They're looking at multiple systems. They're looking at safety systems, comms systems, building systems, people systems. So they're really kind of becoming You know, the frontline resilience managers in some ways.
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Disaster planning is no longer reserved for rare emergencies. It's becoming a core part of facility management. In today's [00:01:00] episode, IFMA's Director of Knowledge and Insights, Dr. Matt Tucker, is joined by Holly Henderson and Dr. Mark Wilson of Chemical Insights to discuss how extreme weather, wildfires, and cascading disasters are changing the role of facility managers.
Together, they explore exposure science, building resilience, chemical hazards after disasters, why today's facility managers are making critical decisions with limited information, and much more. Now, let's get into it.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Welcome everybody to the Connected FM podcast. I am delighted to have my special guests, Holly Henderson and Mark Wilson with me- Thank you ... who work for Chemical Insights. We'll tell you more about that in a moment. But we're gonna be exploring a really, really cool topic. The question is, what happens when disaster planning becomes daily operations?
Hmm. This is something I'm particularly interested in my role within IFMA as Director of Knowledge and [00:02:00] Insights, about looking at the increase in normality of abnormal natural disasters. Mm-hmm. So we're gonna get into that in a moment. Mm-hmm. But firstly, I think it'd be great if you would both introduce yourselves and tell the viewers who you are.
Holly, I'll start with you.
Holley Henderson: Thank you, Matt. So I'm Holly Henderson. My background's in environmental consulting, also in the built environment space. I did design for convention centers for many years, and then most recently started working with UL Research Institute's Chemical Insights, became an employee here, where we focus really on human health exposures and the science behind that.
We're a nonprofit 501[c][3] organization. And then also participated in a volunteer role with IFMA, with the sustainability community, and served on the board there for over five years. And then Chemical Insights is actually a strategic partnership association with IFMA as a trusted resource.
Mark?
Dr. Mark Wilson: So my name's Mark Wilson. I am the [00:03:00] Director of Exposure Science for Underwriters Laboratories Research Institute's Chemical Insights. My background is in toxicology and I'm a public health scientist who's really interested in how chemical exposures impact human health. Mm-hmm. I've done a fair amount of work associated with environmental and exposure reconstructions in post-disaster scenarios- Mm-hmm
uh, including oil spills, hurricanes, and now a large component of my research portfolio focuses on fires at the wildland-urban interface and various chemical exposure scenarios associated with that.
Dr. Matt Tucker: All right. Thank you both for introducing yourselves. Mm-hmm. Let's get into the questions. Okay. So just as a bit of an opener, what does it mean to you when extreme events are no longer rare?
And, you know, why does that matter now for not just our buildings, but people within them as well? I'll start with you, Holly.
Holley Henderson: Okay. Thank you, Matt. I think that it used to be kind of a [00:04:00] curb issue. It would be one of those things that it was a rare occurrence. It might happen, you know, once every decade or so, and now it's more daily operations.
I mean, it really is part of the daily flow, if you will. Mm-hmm. And I think also that we're building portfolios and buildings themselves are more kind of a static asset. I think now people are seeing them more as this kind of s- active safety environment really. Where they might have seen them as static asset previously, now they're really seeing them as some, some, a, a sheltering way of this kind of safety production.
Mm. You know?
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Anything else to add to that, Mark?
Dr. Mark Wilson: Sure. I think when extreme events become commonplace, that it's easy to become complacent- Mm. Mm ... associated with how you respond to them- Mm ... how you plan for them- Mm-hmm ... and how you ultimately deal with the aftermath. Mm. And that can be a, a pretty significant [00:05:00] problem associated with, you know, large scale environmental events.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Sure.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: I'm gonna focus on you a little bit more, Mark. Or should I say Dr. Mark? I apologize.
Dr. Mark Wilson: Mark is good.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Let's look at this thing called exposure science- Mm ... perspectives, right? Mm-hmm. Which I know is your bag. Mm. Yeah. So you can tell me more about this in a second. But what has changed in the frequency, intensity, and duration of events like wildfires, which we've seen- Mm
you know, very recently- Mm ... i- in North America- Mm ... and, and issues like extreme heat?
Holley Henderson: Mm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: So extreme heat is, you know, something that is associated with climate change, and it's- Mm ... truly a global problem. Mm-hmm. And it's gonna be something that we as humans have to deal with on a global scale. Mm. Wildfires on the other hand you know, we're a species that actually has kinda co-evolved with fire.
Mm. We use it for things, and it's an important part of [00:06:00] kinda how we interact with our environment. But we have sprawled into spaces that were more wild in the past. And by doing so, we have more people who are in proximity- Mm ... to wildland spaces- Mm ... that may catch on fire. And just that proximity has a very important component related to the likelihood of being exposed to things.
Mm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Interesting.
Holley Henderson: Mm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: What, what would you say are the, the, you know- most underestimated exposure risks today in terms of, say, you know, facility managers, people occupying building spaces?
Dr. Mark Wilson: So that's a very complex question. And I think there-
Dr. Matt Tucker: Let's dissect it.
Dr. Mark Wilson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think there's really two sides of that coin.
There are a lot of unknowns associated with the synthetic materials that we use in our modern lives. And, you know, there's a [00:07:00] lot of those in modern buildings. So what happens when those are fire fuel? We don't really know. And we also know that there are legacy building materials that are known to be problematic from a health and environmental point of view, like lead in paint and plumbing, and asbestos in insulation, which can be freed from their matrices when large-scale fires occur, and now they are problematic from an environmental fate and transport point of view and from a human exposure scenario point of view.
Mm. So it's both the unknowns associated with the new and the problems that we know are associated with the old.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Okay. Yeah. So if I just try and process some of that in my h- my more simplistic brain let's say, you know, we have this tragic wildfire event. Buildings are affected. Particular assets within that building are, are, are burned.
Chemicals get released [00:08:00] Is that kind of like it's happened and then they disappear? Or do these- Mm ... chemicals and these materials prolong? Are they, are they still there within the building space? Or, you know, is it, has it happened and we just wipe it away? Mm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: So that is a chemical by chemical kind of assessment.
Things like volatile organic chemicals that are likely to become airborne, they can be mitigated pretty easily with just ventilation.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Dr. Mark Wilson: But things like lead and asbestos- Yeah ... they are particles. Mm. And once they're in the indoor environment, if they contaminate surfaces then they can present pretty long-term exposure risks.
Mm-hmm, yeah. So just an awareness of what chemical hazards you're trying to deal with is an important- Yeah ... component.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm. I mean, asbestos is the most common thing that, you know- facility management world is well aware of that. Mm-hmm. Are you seeing a rise in any other particular chemicals or substances that you know, are kind of showing signs- Mm
of being that [00:09:00] prevalent?
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: So there were air monitoring studies associated with the large fire in Los Angeles that detected airborne lead levels spiking.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Really?
Dr. Mark Wilson: And that is concerning because of the, the neurotoxic effects that lead can exert.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yep.
Dr. Mark Wilson: And it, realistically any older urban area is highly likely to have lead paint.
Mm. And when fires occur that destroy buildings, that winds up released- Yep ... both in terms of airborne emissions as well as residual materials that can move around with water and present kinda long-term risk.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Interesting. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Holly, I wanna come to you, and I know the research that you guys do, it cuts across many industries.
Mm. But I just wanted to focus a little bit on the built environment and, and the facility management world. Mm. What decisions are facility managers being forced to make- Mm ... during active events like the ones that we've- Mm ... been [00:10:00] talking about?
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm. Well, a couple of things. I think that FMs are actually having to make real-time decisions, like in real time with limited data.
They don't have the full data. They don't have the full picture. They're looking at multiple systems. They're looking at safety systems, comms systems, building systems, people systems. So they're really kind of becoming You know, the frontline resilience managers in some ways.
Mm-hmm. They're, they're, they are safety professionals in these scenarios, you know? And the other thing I wanted to speak to too, kind of what Mark was talking about with the exposure side of things, was that the more we can the science to where FMs can really use it, utilize it whether it's decision trees, tools, knowing exposure levels, what's the threshold of this exposure that's gonna then cause me to take these actions? I think that those are some really important pieces to, to that.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Okay. Interesting.
Mm-hmm. I mean, [00:11:00] you know, a, a, a, a theme at the beginning of this conference has been around the role of AI, for example. Mm-hmm. Is there a role that that can play in assisting a facility manager in trying to, you know, make those decisions easier- Mm ... have information more readily available to them? Mm. I can see you smiling at Mark.
I'm gonna sort of navigate over to you maybe for this one, Mark. I have a hunch you might have something to say.
Dr. Mark Wilson: Yeah. Actually, I'd, I'd not really thought much about that in- Mm ... the past, but, you know, during the keynote this morning, it kind of provoked some interest associated with how the reliance on automation could be pretty problematic if, for instance, the power grid is out.
Mm-hmm. And in large scale disasters, that commonly is true. Mm. Mm. And one of the things mentioned in the keynote was, oh, Team of 10 can be knocked down to one. Well, if you've done that- Mm-hmm ... and the power is out, then that one has to pull the weight of the 10. Mm-hmm. So there [00:12:00]has to be kind of a Stone Age contingency built in- Mm.
Mm ... to the back end of it. And at the speed that things are moving, I don't know if that kind of consideration is part of the process.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. I mean, we, we, you know, we looked at this topic in terms of disaster plan, how it affects daily operations, and we primarily focused on natural disasters with the examples of, say, wildfires or extreme heat.
From a facility management perspective, this is a major challenge now, isn't it? Because you've got increasing volatile natural events happening in the world. We also have increasing volatile digital events that are- Mm. ... that are impacting the world. Cybersecurity threats are now a day-to-day occurrence. You mentioned the word resilience, Holly.
Holley Henderson: Mm.
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Dr. Matt Tucker: important is that skill of resilience now on the whole myriad of skillsets that, that an FM needs to, to really juggle, you know, cybersecurity, natural disasters and, you know, is there, is, is there any advice or, or perspectives you have on
Holley Henderson: that? Mm-hmm. I think it's increasingly important, and I really feel like I heard that in the keynote today as well, that they were talking about that your adaptability, your ability to change.
Also think, too, buildings oftentimes were built for, like, a static... They were, they were built with maybe one event in mind but [00:14:00] not this cascading series of events- Yeah ... that we're seeing more frequently and more intensity, as you said earlier. So I think that ability to adapt and change and, and, Look for creative solutions, innovative solutions, as they were saying in the keynote earlier.
You know, those innovative solutions, the things that humans can bring that AI can't really touch yet. Yeah,
Dr. Matt Tucker: yeah.
Holley Henderson: Yeah.
Dr. Matt Tucker: From the buildings that you see, you know, yeah, it's very common that, you know, we would have buildings in near like a, a, a particular plate line or whatever- Mm ... that would have sort of earthquake-proof features to it.
Mm. And that would be one particular cause.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: How equipped are they for multiple causes? Mm. Have you seen any, you know, developments on that front where buildings are becoming sort of multi-resilient in lots of ways?
Holley Henderson: I think a smaller percentage of them. I mean, I think of buildings as systems. I mean, they are water systems, power systems, people systems, safety systems.
They kind of are these systems, and they're not really built for [00:15:00] complex stress, complex fractures. You know, unless you're talking about the top 5% might be... in my, in my experience has been. So I think more and more they're gonna be looking to that as models for those more complex cascading or compounding issues.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Wonderful. Dr. Mark Wilson. I wanna ask you I wanna put your science brain to work. Yeah. Tell me more about how your research can better inform building operations- Mm-hmm ... decision-making from the stuff that you have done. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: So we-
Dr. Matt Tucker: And maybe just give a little snapshot into what that research is.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: Yeah. So we do a lot of work associated with the chemical landscape of consumer products, including building materials, both in terms of how they influence the indoor environment in normal times, and also when you set them on fire. Mm-hmm. So we set things on fire [00:16:00] a lot- Mm ... and measure the kind of chemical fingerprint associated with that.
And really what that can do is provide facilities managers and other people who are interested and have influence in indoor environmental quality with, you know, chemical information to identify specific classes of hazards that they should be aware of, which can inform, you know, mitigation strategies- Mm
and how to deal with those problems. So what might work well for volatile chemicals- Yep ... may not work well for particles and vice versa. So just an awareness of what the physical properties of the problems are, as well as how trying to deal with them may solve a problem or may actually cause problems.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: So that kind of context is really where we Try to [00:17:00] plug in
Dr. Matt Tucker: Sure. Yeah.
Holley Henderson: I'll say one of the things I've learned, too- Yeah ... from watching the science, I had no idea how much residual dust, which is something that you really would think is pretty benign, but even after these major events, is a real issue.
Dr. Mark Wilson: Yeah.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Tell me a tiny bit more about that.
Holley Henderson: Mm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Residual dust you say?
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Holley Henderson: After an event.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Dr. Mark Wilson: Yeah. So incidental dust ingestion isn't something that we, like, think about a lot. Mm. No. No. But if you actually measure it you know, you eat milligram amounts of dust every single day. Mm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Dr. Mark Wilson: If you are engaged in, say, cleaning, it's higher- Mm
because you're disturbing it. Mm. If you're a small child who spends a lot of time on the floor and engages- Mm ... in hand-to-mouth activity- Mm ... there's a really high potential- Mm ... for not only dermal exposure, but also- Mm ... ingestions. Mm. So those types of things, if the dust is innocuous, isn't that much of a [00:18:00] problem.
But if it contains problematic chemicals and physical agents, then it can pose a significant risk.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: It's interesting that you ... I'll pick up on that point a little bit more, because when I think about disaster planning or i- certainly the immediate event and the aftermath- Mm-hmm ... the immediate aftermath, there are major cleanup exercise- Oh, yes
and rehabilitation exercises. But I think when you think of something like residual dust-
Holley Henderson: Yeah ...
Dr. Matt Tucker: it's more of a prolonged- Yes Right ... uh, impact, right- Mm ... that you can't necessarily see. I think if I think put a facility manager hat on, they're things that perhaps could go unnoticed that- Sure ... you focus your attentions on that short term- Mm-hmm
because it's extreme and it needs- Mm-hmm ... to be addressed there and then.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: But having these, this prolonged aftercare- Mm-hmm ... of services like cleaning for residual dust- Mm-hmm ... sounds like it's really, really important and may, may be an underestimated feature. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Would you... Is, is that, is that fair?
Holley Henderson: I think so, and I... We recently spoke [00:19:00] at WorldWork Place in the US with G- Laurie Gelmer, a past global chair at IFMA. Yep,
Dr. Matt Tucker: yep.
Holley Henderson: And she was talking about how they'd had... She's in California, and they'd had a, a wildfire there, and afterwards they brought in a cleaning crew for the residual dust, and she thought that, you know, "Is this overkill?"
And she, when we, when we spoke with her, she's like, "Oh my gosh, I now realize how important and critical that really was." Mm-hmm. "But I didn't..." And e- and her background was in engineering. Yeah. She said, "I really didn't know it until meeting with you guys and talking about it."
Dr. Matt Tucker: I mean, that's what's great about these conversations.
It wasn't something immediately on my mind. Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, I'm, I'm listening to you guys as, as providing expertise in this area, and I'm trying to learn from that, like many people listening will be. And yeah, that's a, that's a feature that- Mm ... that I wouldn't necessarily- Mm-hmm ... hone in on.
Something else which I don't know too much about is the theme of compound and cascading events. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, it's Mark or Holly, however you wanna take this. Mm. But why are buildings particularly vulnerable when disasters stack or follow one another?
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm. Can
Dr. Matt Tucker: you explain [00:20:00] that a little bit more?
Dr. Mark Wilson: Sure. Well, oftentimes, you know, large scale environmental problems do co-occur. A good example is the very large fire that occurred in Lahaina in Hawaii- Mm ... a few years ago. So there was a hurricane that passed by a few hundred miles away. And because of that, the prevailing wind directions changed.
Mm-hmm. So a fire that occurred on a ridge line that normally would've stayed up on the ridge instead blew down into a populated area, right? So it was the convergence of those two events that really caused this large scale conflagration. Oftentimes there are major problems with fires in post-earthquake scenarios from broken gas lines and things like that.
And also, you know, just having building systems offline for extended periods of time. Like I spent [00:21:00] time in Louisiana after many hurricanes, and static buildings in high humidity situations can cause really significant problems with things like mold- Mm-hmm ... that are downstream of those events. Mm-hmm.
So, you know, power outages and interruptions of normal kind of building maintenance can be really, really problematic. Yeah. And those are typically associated with large scale events that oftentimes occur as a group.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, that, that idea of a cascade in event, you know, one has followed another is this common knowledge in terms of you know, is it, is it anecdotal observations or is there scientific research which kind of shows these trends that-
Holley Henderson: Hmm
Dr. Matt Tucker: one follows another or, you know... I suppose where I'm going with this is, is this something that a facility manager could, could predict or anticipate might happen? Mm. And should that be built into these disaster plans- Mm ... that one might follow [00:22:00] another? Mm. So let's say for example, you know, we have an, we have a, we have a, a hunch that there's gonna be a threat of a hurricane.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Should we then be saying, "Well, actually there's gonna be a hurricane plus-
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yes ... something else"? And we plan for the potential event of both. Mm-hmm
Holley Henderson: I think there should be planning ahead for that.
Dr. Mark Wilson: Yeah.
Holley Henderson: Yeah. I agree. More and more.
Dr. Mark Wilson: And typically, you know, that kind of approach is, is kind of touched on in all hazards planning.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: But in, in my experience with, you know, actual disasters in the real world, that's a iterative process, and your all hazards plan you know, you could fall back to the Mike Tyson quote where everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face. Right? And on the back end of it, it's easy to adjust in hindsight- Mm-hmm
and to say, "Oh, well, we should've thought about that. We should've known about the probability of these two things occurring." Mm-hmm. But until that actually happens- Mm ... it's very difficult to, you know, build that into the [00:23:00] planning process. And one thing about environmental health issues is it's typically not front of mind- Mm
until things go off the rails. Mm-hmm. Sure. So it's not an easy sell. Mm-hmm. And realistically, you know, infrastructure hardening and things like that costs money. Mm-hmm. So it's easy to make the case in hindsight, but difficult to, you know, prognosticate associated with it, because what if it doesn't happen?
Mm-hmm. Then you're accountable for- Mm ... making recommendations- Mm ... that cost a lot of money- Mm ... that didn't need to be spent- Mm ... until they need to be spent.
Holley Henderson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mark Wilson: So, yeah. It's tough.
Holley Henderson: Yes. I also think the other pressure that FMs have is the time pressure for business continuity and getting back online more quickly than they might need, really need to based on potential health considerations.
I think that they've got a lot of pressure on them to get back at it. Yeah. You know? [00:24:00]
Dr. Matt Tucker: Well, unfortunately, we've, we've come to time. Yeah. I could talk to you about this a lot, lot longer. Yes. And in the spirit of unplanned events, I did not anticipate hearing a Mike Tyson quote- ... during this podcast, so-
that, that's very fitting for, for the theme that we've covered. Yes. I wanna thank you, Holly. Yes. I wanna thank you, Mark, for your time. Mm-hmm. And I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. Mm-hmm. Thank you very much.
Holley Henderson: Thank you, Matt. Thanks. Really appreciate it.
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