Kelsey Hirsch interviews Teena Shouse on the impact of women in facility management, career growth, and the power of mentorship. They explore Teena’s journey, IFMA’s progress in gender diversity, and the balance between career and well-being. A motivating conversation on how women can advance and thrive in FM.
In this episode, Kelsey Hirsch, VP in Workplace Solutions at Sodexo, interviews Teena Shouse, past chairman of the IFMA Board of Directors, on the importance and impact of women in facilities management (FM). They discuss Teena's journey into FM, her strategic approach to career planning, and the importance of mentorship and inspiration. The conversation highlights the progress of gender diversity within IFMA's leadership and underscores the value of diverse experiences. Teena shares her personal strategies for achieving career goals and mentoring others, emphasizing the need to balance professional aspirations with personal well-being.
Teena Shouse: [00:00:00] I needed a lot more education. I needed to learn the industry much better, but I also needed to understand who was doing what and looking for those best practices. And that's where you stop talking and you start listening and you surround yourself with smarter people than you and you listen and you learn and you have to handpick those people.
Host: Welcome to Connected FM, a podcast connecting you to the latest insights, tools, and resources to help you succeed in facility management. This podcast is brought to you by IFMA, the leading professional association for facility managers. If you are ready to grow your network and advance in your career, go to ifma.
org to get started. In today's episode, Kelsey Hirsch, a managing vice president at Sodexo. Interviews Tina Shouse, past chairman of IFMA's Global Board of Directors, on the importance and impact of women in facilities [00:01:00] management. They discuss Tina's journey into FM, her strategic approach to career planning, and the importance of mentorship and inspiration.
The conversation highlights the progress of gender diversity within IFMA's leadership and emphasizes the need to balance professional aspirations with personal well being. Now, let's get into it.
Kelsey Hirsch: Hello my name is Kelsey Hirsch, and I'm a vice president in workplace solutions at Sodexo, and past panel member and facilitator of several women in FM sessions at IFMA World Workplace over the years. March 8th, is International Women's Day. And what better time to look back and discuss the important role women have played in shaping the facilities management industry around the world.
And look forward to ways in which women can play an even more important role in FM's future. Today is very exciting as I'll be facilitating a terrific [00:02:00] discussion with someone who has had critical intersections in the FM space for decades. She's a past chairman of the IFMA Board of Directors and past chair of Global FM Board of Directors.
With decades of experience, she continues to provide consulting and insights into FM through her leadership at FM Transitions. And now, let me introduce the one, the only, Teena Shouse.
Teena Shouse: Thank you, Kelsey. As usual, it's great to be with you. Although using decades twice might be a little overkill. Okay, I'm just saying.
Kelsey Hirsch: Fair enough. Fair enough. And we don't really want to point it out. I don't think at our age but well, Tina, I mean, you have been an inspiration to me for years, right? Since I first met you in my role, I think, 11 years ago, and a lot of that is because of the role you've played in IFMA and [00:03:00] in FM progression FM management professions, progression, right?
And also because of your passion, I mean, you're always very interested, very engaging and also very innovative. I know a lot about you, but for those who don't know about you, can you share a little bit about just your background in facilities management in your career overall?
Teena Shouse: Sure, well, I was kind of a late bloomer into facility management.
It's not like I grew up saying, oh, my goodness, when I grow up, I want to be a facility manager. I had a couple of different positions that kind of fed into that in that. I worked for waste management. I worked for services back in the day before it became Aramark and they, but they prepared me because it for this position for a position within facility management.
Although when my client from sprint asked me to become a facility manager, I looked him straight in the face and said, why me? And I said, I really don't understand facility management. I don't really know what they do. Exactly. And he said, I can teach you those things. He said, but I want [00:04:00] someone who has the passion and the caring and will work hard.
And I said, I can do that. Sure. Why not? And so he gave me some very good advice. Thank you. He told me, John never asked much, he told me, go back to school, get some more business education, and join IFMA. And that was in 1990. And so from that, I stayed in on the local chapter and then set my sights a little bit higher and that happened about 5 years after that.
I guess it was. And I was at a world workplace, which. I would highly recommend everybody goes to World Workplace and at World Workplace I was watching a ceremony and I was looking up there and I was saying I could do that. I could be on that board of directors. And then I said how can I do that?
So like anything else you can't just sit there. And [00:05:00] I've always said, hope is not a strategy. So I had to put together my plan and that's what I did.
Kelsey Hirsch: So that's really interesting because, well, I think about making plans at work all the time. I don't really think about making plans for myself, and that's unfortunately, that's just me, right?
I'm an eternal procrastinator by nature, which is something that I always struggle with at work. I think it's really interesting that you made a plan to hit a goal, and it comes across as sounding kind of simplistic when I say it out loud like that, but I think it's interesting, but I'm not sure that. As many people do that, let me take a step back for a 2nd 1st though.
So you made a plan to get to the board of directors. That was your ultimate goal. Yeah.
Teena Shouse: Yes.
Kelsey Hirsch: So here's what I think is interesting. When IFMA was founded in the 80s, there were two [00:06:00] women on the board out of, what does the board make up? 15, 6, 12 people? Okay, so two women out of 12. That's, I don't even know what the percentage is, right?
Less than 20%. Yeah exactly. And one of the most core values, though, and even their core values then was around recognizing the benefit of diversity, inclusion, different experiences, right? So that's like a core value to theirs. They started with two women. Now, as I was doing some of my investigation for this, I figured out that.
That literally half the board is now women. Right?
Teena Shouse: Absolutely. It's fabulous.
Kelsey Hirsch: It is. It's unbelievable, right? To have that representation in the board. Here's what's really interesting, though. Only 23 percent of the facilities management workforce globally is women. Which is really interesting, right? So we've got half the board of directors of IFMA women, only 23 percent of the workforce [00:07:00]globally women.
And if you dig down into leadership, right? Like IFMA leadership, men outnumber women. So less than, say, 12 percent of FM leaders are women. So I think it's really interesting how IFMA is like leading the charge on that. The other thing that I think is really interesting is, you know, one could argue about the pros and cons of gender diversity, right?
But there's like a very objective statistic around companies that have greater diversity in their workforce. Whether it's gender diversity or any other diversity actually outperformed financially their peers globally. And when you break it down by region, which the other thing I thought was super interesting is.
Like, in Europe, organizations that are gender diverse actually outperform their peers by as much as 7%, which, you know, is a significant [00:08:00] difference. I mean, it's just not a percent or two, it's really significant. And so, when I think about these diverse experiences, and then you talk about your plan, Right.
You try to marry the two. I want to talk first about your plan, because that literally is a roadmap, I think, for people, regardless of gender on how to reach a goal in a certain time frame, because your plan was like, what, 10 years? Like, you had a long plan
Teena Shouse: That was that specific goal. Yes.
Kelsey Hirsch: Yeah. Yeah. So talk to me about that. Like, okay,
Teena Shouse: yeah.
Kelsey Hirsch: How do you do that?
Teena Shouse: Well, it's not unlike you would do if you had a project at work. You know, I've always been a Covey fan, right? I loved Stephen Covey. I used, and I used to speak about him and just absolutely thought he was the best. So you go back to the basics.
You begin with the end in mind. So my dream, my vision was to be walking across the stage and [00:09:00] being introduced and then further. When I reached that first goal, then it's like, okay, I'm on the board of directors. Now I want to be chairman. And so
Kelsey Hirsch: how long was your plan to be on the board?
Teena Shouse: 10 years on the
Kelsey Hirsch: board.
Teena Shouse: And I became chairman and I became chairman in 10 years. So I surpassed my goal.
Kelsey Hirsch: How many more years did you think you would have to be on the board to become chairman?
Teena Shouse: Well, interesting story. So normally you serve on the board of directors for two years, and then you either say goodbye and they thank you for your service or they move you to the EC.
And I had a mentor who believed in me. And he went to the powers to be and said, she needs one more year and then let's move her to the EC. So I was granted one more year as a rate as a normal director on the board. And then, because of my champion, because of my mentor, because the person, somebody who believed in me, [00:10:00] and I had proven myself to right championed me and said, give her one more year.
Let's put her on the EC. And I think you'll be pleased with the results. So that was the, and so, but that happened as a result of the entire, you know, and I also believe in smart objectives, right? Specific, measurable. So I had to be very specific about what I wanted to do, how I wanted to craft this path, if you will.
And it involved education.
Kelsey Hirsch: Okay.
Teena Shouse: I needed a lot more education. I needed to learn the industry much better, but I also needed to understand who was doing what and looking for those best practices. And that's where you stop talking and you start listening and you surround yourself with smarter people than you and you listen and you learn and you have to handpick those people.[00:11:00]
I had some amazing mentors, I and they were all, every one of my mentors were with IFMA. And I'm still friends with either their widows or I'm still friends with them. And because all of my mentors have been men.
Kelsey Hirsch: Which is, you know, what is your thought about that? I have mixed feelings, right?
About, because there was a time years and years ago where that was the mantra, which was Find a man to be your champion. And I suppose if you think about the odds, right, if 23 percent of women are in the workforce or that are in FM professions, that means 77 percent are men. And so, and you do that nine to one ratio, right?
On leadership. I guess the likelihood is you have a larger pool of men to choose from, but I'm just curious, like, do you think that's changed? I look at my own organization and I'm blessed enough that my direct manager, the woman that I report to as a woman. And all three of her next level [00:12:00] managers, of which I am one, are also women.
And so, you know, we're lucky, right? Because that's just the makeup of our organization, but what are your thoughts on that? Does it, is there a benefit to having a man as a mentor or does it, is it somewhat agnostic? It's more of the role that they take on.
Teena Shouse: I don't think they had anything to do with the fact that they were males.
They were just very, they were very open to adopting me.
Kelsey Hirsch: Right. Got it.
Teena Shouse: I don't know that it made any difference, but one thing I do want to backtrack for just a little bit, even though I never had women that were mentors, that's not to say that I didn't engage with women who inspired me. And there's a difference. There's a difference between having someone as a mentor and having someone inspire you.
And. You know, I've been very lucky, and with IFMA, and also with Sprint, and especially with FEA. I was with Facility Engineering Associates for 8 years, and I was 1 of only 2 women that were on their board and were principals of the organization. And now. One of those women [00:13:00] is now leading the organization, Lori Gilmer, and Maureen Raskosky has just, you know, risen to that leadership position.
So, you know, those women inspire me for, I watch them and see how they move through the world and how they move up through the world. And so even though they're not truly mentors, you can be an inspiration.
Kelsey Hirsch: I think that's. I think that's really important because it goes back to your, I can do that.
What do you remember when you were sitting in the audience and you decided that, right? You put that light in the sand. How many women were on that stage?
Teena Shouse: I don't remember any.
Kelsey Hirsch: Wow.
Teena Shouse: I really don't because I guess I just wasn't focused. I mean, I was just, you know, not very many, if any at all but now that's changed too.
So what's really interesting about that is. A few years ago we did a [00:14:00] special opening for World Workplace and they chose five of us to tell our story of progressing in IFMA and that was what was really interesting. Then there were five of us and three of us were women.
Kelsey Hirsch: Tina, how many people do you think consciously make a plan like you did?
Cause I just did the math in my head. So you said in 10 years I'm going to be on the board and in two years after that I'm going to be the chair. You achieved the chairperson role within 10 years, which means you hit the board at 7 or 8 in your plan. How, so you set out milestones, I'm going to make a couple of just project management principle assumptions, right?
You set up milestones, right? And they were measurable and they were achievable. How frequently did you check in on yourself? Well, two questions. One is give me an example of a milestone that was in your plan. [00:15:00] And then how frequently did you check in on your incremental achievement to make sure you were still on plan?
Teena Shouse: Well, bottom line, My advice to anybody that wants to do this, and it's kind of the plan. I wasn't absolutely, you know, strict on it, but I tried to do anywhere from 1 to 2 hours a week. On literally working on me working on whether that was attending a class, whether that was going to a conference, whether that was watching, we didn't have as many.
I don't think we had. I know we didn't have zoom back then. Right? Right. But, you know, going to classes, going to speeches and always attending the conferences.
And so I would do a check in at least once a week and just really kind of, and it just stay focused and there's so much distractions out there, you know, women, especially, and one of the things I would like to, I'm going to do some homework because I want to. [00:16:00] I want to challenge some thoughts that you gave me about the percentage of women in facility management, and I'm 99 percent sure that I've read that we lost ground during COVID because women had to stop and go back to taking care of the family.
And so I would venture to guess that before COVID, it was over 23%, but we'll have to do that for podcast number 2.
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Kelsey Hirsch: We'll do that. We'll do that. We'll challenge each other a little bit. [00:17:00] I mean, you know,
Teena Shouse: good.
Kelsey Hirsch: Oh, no, please.
Teena Shouse: No, I was just going to say the other thing that we have talked about is how things have changed, you know, throughout the world and one of the biggest aha moments for me was when I led a delegation for people to China.
And I was able to, I can't remember, 27 of us, 28 of us, I believe it was. And the women, we were probably about a third. And this was back in 2007. And these were women that were leaders in their organization. They were either facility managers at a major university, or they were you know, a company working for very large companies.
And the men also were facility managers for big corporations. This was, they were, this was by invitation. And and that's where I met, you know, some incredible women. In fact, one of the women I now serve on her advisory board Maxine [00:18:00] started this fantastic organization called MCFM Academy.
And I still, and I just joined them as an advisor. And it's basically just training and network networking for. Advanced kind of that next level of FM professionals and you know, the academy is making great strides and that's what I like to see. You know, she's and that's what's really cool about being involved in this is we're an international group.
When we have a board meeting or an advisory meeting, it's all in teams and half of the names. I can't some of the names. I can't even pronounce. And so it's very much more globally. Expanding and what I'm learning and I'm, you know, I'm on my sundown I'm sundowning and it's time for me to move over and make room for other people.
But I still want to reach out. I still want to teach when I can, and I still want [00:19:00] to expose people to what the possibilities are out there. And especially whether it's IFMA, whether it's to MCFM Academy, whatever it is, there's always, we're just so blessed that there's so much more out there for us today.
Kelsey Hirsch: So you actually gave me a really good segue here. So we talked a little bit about your plan, right? And how much time to focus on yourself, which I think is something that most of us don't do enough of in any way, shape or form as women. We're always. Doing things for others, whether it's your children, whether it's your partner, whether it's your extended family, your friends, et cetera.
It's just kind of an innate thing. But, you know, you reference your son downing, which goes back to the decades, which we don't have to talk about, but it brings up an interesting thing, right? Which is. that the workforce is aging, whether it's facility managers, whether it's frontline trades, people, the workforce is aging.
I mean, just the population is aging overall, right? And you couple that with something that I [00:20:00] read recently, which I think is was a little bit disconcerting because I'm in that middle upper management phase, which is younger people do not want my job. Right. And I made a team of like nine people, not one of them wants to be my successor.
And the article pointed out, I mean, I was, I've been trying to think about this a little bit and I think I know the answer, but then this article really pointed some things out to me, which is, you know, people in generation Z, right. Which are really the people that we're trying to develop and mentor. They see the stress.
middle managers, which is really kind of their first, second line of promotion, right? Depending on the role that they're in are under due to things like layoffs and reductions in force due to things like regulatory chaos, right? Or change depending on what's going on. And they don't want that stress, right?
They're literally looking at this whole quality of life thing. They are not [00:21:00] interested. In upending their quality of life for another 10, 000 of salary, right? And then incremental thing. And so it got me to thinking, and I'm curious what you would think about if you are in a leadership role, and you have people on your team that you really have identified as somebody who has great potential for growth.
How can you inspire them, especially if they're on your team and you see them as a successor, right? And for me, like my greatest joy in being a leader is empowering my team to become successful. And that's different for every single person. But if that's the case, you know, what is your advice to me or for anybody that wants to inspire a person on their very own team to advance in their profession, to grow in their profession, which may or may not mean promotion.
But what advice do you have in that regard?
Teena Shouse: I think it's twofold. First of all, I have always believed in the balance of life [00:22:00] and keeping good balance. And I think that's why I've been married 51 years and why I have a very strong array of great friends and a wonderful community. So I think trying to move them along, but helping them understand they don't have to sacrifice both.
They really don't. If you can find that, if you find that balance, that's the number one thing. And then number two, you have to help them see things that they may not see in themselves. Now, it's been quite a while since I've managed anybody. And I used to love it when I was at Sprint.
I loved managing people. I loved developing them and taking them. I mean, I have gentlemen that in 1992, we're delivering mail and for administrative services because we weren't facility management yet. And, you know, I've read we went to reunion not too long ago. of our building of celebrating the building of our campus.
And this gentleman, he's not a young man anymore, is now a vice president at T Mobile. [00:23:00] And, you know, that's really quite lovely. But where I now find that I get an opportunity to do that more is when I teach. And so I, I just referenced this in an email just about two hours ago. There's a gentleman that was in one of my Essentials of FM class.
And it was a virtual class. And I just saw such potential in this guy. And I said, you know, I've got to talk to him. And so I invited him for coffee. And we, and he drove all the way from Columbia, Missouri. And long story short, he's taking a whole group of people to Facility Fusion next month, or in April.
And getting them very involved. And then I, another, same class. There was a woman who was the head of housekeeping at one of the universities. And I stopped right after one of the classes, I called her and I said, do you have a minute to talk? And she said, sure. What? And I said, I really, I want to be your mentor.[00:24:00]
And she goes to do what I'm ahead of the housekeeping. And I said, you have potential, you have true potential, but you need to find out how to use that potential. But keeping balance. And understanding what makes you happy. And so, long story short, she's now a supervisor at one of the largest botanical, well, arboretums in the state of Missouri.
And she's the supervisor there now. And she's working with flowers and trees and bees and tourists and it's fabulous.
Kelsey Hirsch: Oh, that's a great story. I mean, I think. I think to your point, being able to be close enough and volunteering for the mentorship versus being sought out, I love about just you're talking about finding an inspiration and then turning around and being an inspiration, right?
Because you've lived it, you've breathed it and you've demonstrated it. I mean, not to mention the 51 years of success in America [00:25:00] is amazing,
Teena Shouse: but I think that's the joy. I mean, I think that's our responsibility. I think that is we have been blessed. And I really believe in the giving back, right?
That's why I sit on the board of two nonprofit organizations that, you know, are charitable donate and donate, you know, organizations. And if you continue to give back when you've been blessed. I mean, that's your responsibility. That's the payback.
Kelsey Hirsch: Yeah, no, that's I mean, that's amazing.
I I think our time is coming to an end, Teena, but I want to thank you. I've got a couple of key takeaways here. Let me know if I forgot anything, right? I mean, first and foremost, it's make a plan and dedicate time for yourself to meet that plan. And I don't think it matters, or you tell me, it doesn't matter how long it is, or how short it is, how aspirational it is, or not.
Teena Shouse: And maybe segment. Some people, not everybody can do the 10 year plan.
Kelsey Hirsch: So if
Teena Shouse: [00:26:00] you can't, do it in chunks. Break it up in chunks. Break it up in chunks. The work you're comfortable with.
Kelsey Hirsch: Okay. The next thing that I have as a takeaway here is find Not only a mentor, but an inspiration and it could be two different people, right?
Teena Shouse: Very much so
Kelsey Hirsch: and I think it would be safe to say as I think about my experience That it's not necessarily the same person the entire way through it's as you gain your experience And you check those boxes in your plan. And then the last thing I think that I heard is to give back be that inspiration once you've had an opportunity to put the experience under your belt and be there for that next generation so that they really see the excitement.
I remember the whole reason that I love what I do. People used to ask me on a plane years ago, what do you do for a living? And I never said I was in facilities management
Teena Shouse: because they would have drawn a blank,
Kelsey Hirsch: right? Yeah. I always said my job is to make people believe that I am meeting the [00:27:00] expectations that they have so much budget right to deliver the services.
And so you want them to believe that the services that they get, they always need it all along. That makes for a much more interesting play and right conversation. But, but being that inspiration back exciting the next generation of women, making them feel like they really do have something to contribute.
I think it's certainly
Teena Shouse: do.
Kelsey Hirsch: Yeah. Yeah. 1 thing
Teena Shouse: I would like to 1 thing I would like to leave you with is the next time. Somebody asks if you're a facility manager next time. Somebody asked what do you do for a living? You say I am a solution architect.
I solve problems
Kelsey Hirsch: there you go. There you go.
Teena Shouse. Thank you so much for joining us. Very much. Appreciate it. You bet. You bet.
Teena Shouse: Take care.
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