How do people truly feel connected at work? This episode explores how identity, relationships and physical environment shape employee belonging. They unpack why work connection goes beyond surface-level communications, how hybrid models complicate identity cues, and why organizations must design workplaces with people rather than arbitrary return-to-office mandates.
What does it take for people to feel genuinely connected at work? In this episode, host Dr. Matt Tucker sits down with organizational psychologist Yoy Bergs and MillerKnoll workplace researcher Mark Catchlove to discuss identity, relationships and physical space.
Together, they explore:
Whether you're leading teams, shaping workplace culture, or designing modern spaces, this conversation offers actionable insights on building a workplace where people feel seen, valued and connected.
Yoy Bergs: [00:00:00] We should not be asking ourselves how often do we want people to come back to the office, but we should ask ourselves why and when do we want people to be present at the office, both from an employee perspective and an organizational perspective, and I think that boils down to that idea of community and our sense of belonging together as human beings.
Host: Welcome to ConnectedFM, a podcast connecting you to the latest insights, tools and resources to help you succeed in facility management. This podcast is brought to you by IFMA, the leading professional association for facility managers. If you are ready to grow your network and advance in your career, go to ifma.org to get started.
What does it take for people to feel genuinely connected at work? In today's episode, host Dr. Matt Tucker, IFMA's Director of Knowledge and Insights, sits down with organizational psychologist Joy Berg's and [00:01:00] MillerKnoll workplace researcher Mark Catchlove to explore how identity, relationships, and physical environment shape employee belonging.
They also unpack why work connection goes beyond surface level communications, how hybrid models complicate identity cues, and why organizations must design workplaces with people in mind rather than arbitrary return to office mandates. Now let's get into it
Dr. Matt Tucker: Welcome to the Connected FM podcast. I am delighted to have with me Yoy Bergs and Mark Catchlove. We are gonna talk about connections and being connected at work, and we're gonna look at two kinda interrelated themes of identity and relationship dynamics. So, Yoy, would you just briefly like to introduce yourself?
Yoy Bergs: Of course. My name is Yoy Bergs. I'm a senior lecturer at Breda University of Applied Sciences. I used to study facilities management, but I suddenly moved into the [00:02:00] direction of organizational psychology. So I would- Oof ... rather identify myself as an organizational psychologist, and now mainly teaching in the field of sustainable human resource management and sustainable careers of individuals.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Amazing. Thank you.
Yoy Bergs: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mark?
Mark Catchlove: Mark Catchlove. I work for a company called MillerKnoll. My role is sharing our research and insights, and I've been around the world of workplace for forty years, so, that's a lot of research and insights. But that's the role, is, is sharing what's new, what we're hearing, what we're hearing from our customers.
Dr. Matt Tucker: And I've been in many of your talks, and I've, and I've heard you speak as well, Yoy, and I'm sure this is gonna be really, really great. We did a bit of preparation, didn't we, for this podcast. And, and you mentioned... I wanna make sure I credit you, Mark. You, you, you made an interesting distinction between your role and Yoy's role and the fact that you're looking at place and then people, whereas Yoy is perhaps, with your organizational psychologist background, is looking more [00:03:00] people than place.
Mm-hmm. However, I think both of your interests align quite nicely, and I think that's what's great about having you both on this podcast to explore these themes perhaps from slightly different perspectives. So if we just kick off, then in, in one sentence what does it mean to feel connected at work?
Start with you, Yoy.
Yoy Bergs: It actual- this question reminds me of a thesis of one of my students, and in her thesis she explored the three Cs, I would say. So she looked at collaboration, communication, and connection. And I believe that connection really comes from basically the alignment between who you are and the relationships that you have at your work.
So it's much more related to your identity and feeling connected to the people with whom you work with in an environment, rather than having optimal communication or having optimal collaboration processes.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Interesting. Mm. Very interesting. How about you, Mark?
Mark Catchlove: So for me it is all about [00:04:00] community and that feeling that people have when they walk into a space.
And I often think that there's a lot of data out there, but a lot of it's about feelings. We often feel with... before we think. So how welcome do people feel to b- in the place, and then to be a part of that community? It, it is also being connected with people that are different from you.
Yoy Bergs: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Mark Catchlove: It isn't always b- about being with like-minded people.
That's important for me.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm. Fantastic. Yoy, your research, which we'll get into now, it explores how people construct and navigate multiple identities in the workplace. What does that, what does that word identity really mean in the workplace, and what differences have you seen?
Yoy Bergs: So I look at identity as who someone is and how they come to identify themselves in working environments.
So this is oftentimes through certain roles that they have which relate to, for example, being a [00:05:00] manager or being a colleague. It also relates to certain relationships they have at their work, and it can relate to personal characteristics such as being an introvert or being someone that is creative.
And the working environment becomes a very important context in which we identify ourselves. So in the, the, the scientific literature, this is something that we call organizational identification. So you identify with the place that you work at. And I think that there's three elements that are really important when we look...
Well, actually four elements that are important when we look at identity. Mm-hmm. Identities are always multiple, so we navigate multiple identities within our work environment, but also outside of our working environment. Secondly, identity is always contextual. Mm-hmm. So our identities get formed and shaped in certain contexts, such as the workplace.
Thirdly, our identities are always dynamic, so who you are might actually change over time as you navigate different environments and different phases of life. And this is something that Jessica actually mentioned [00:06:00] this morning as well. Maybe it's not so much about your generation, but you move through different life phases- Mm
and then your identity also changes. And then finally, and I think this relates to what Mark is going to ta-talk more about, our identities are socially constructed, which actually means that who we are gets shaped and formed by the interactions that we have with other people, not only at work, but also in our private lives.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm. I just wanted to hone in on that bit about, like, the, your identity sort of changing over time, and I, I did a research study on tattoo, perception of tattoos in the workplace, and it came about... And not just tattoos, but personal appearance generally.
Yoy Bergs: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: And I wanted to just get your insights on the sort of pre- and post-COVID changes that you see with identity.
And what I noticed in the research I did was people were much more open to sharing and exposing tattoos, being more casual in the way they dress, et cetera. Because COVID changed all of that [00:07:00] dynamic. Yeah. Is that a p- is that an example of how that ch- that identity evolves?
Yoy Bergs: It's super fascinating because the tattoos is actually something that we call identity work.
So we have certain cognitive or behavioral activities that show to others who we are. What I think happened during COVID, that these contexts, like the working environment, they started to accept different cues. So whereas beforehand it might have not been accepted to show those visible cues of who you are- Mm
nowadays, I think workplaces have shifted a little bit more where people can feel recognized for who they are, and, and those identity work tactics that they can apply, for example, showing those tattoos, is much more accepted in the working environment, and that relates a lot to that idea of bringing your whole self to work, right?
It-it's okay to bring those multiple aspects of yourself to the workplace. Yeah.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah. Very interesting. Mark, I'm gonna come to you, and you, you produced a fascinating article recently on relationship-based work. I, [00:08:00] I, I found this really interesting, but do, do you mind explaining to the listeners what, what this actually means in practice and how that...
what that paper was about?
Mark Catchlove: So there's a lot of focus on the work that we do and where we do it, but I think it's really important to understand that very rarely is a piece of work completed on our own, that it is about who we work with and how we work with them. And to do that, we did something which I thought was really simple, but we looked at work in a very simple form.
I'm probably taking guidance from a guy called Neil Usher, who broke work down into alpha and beta, which is talking about it and doing it.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Catchlove: That's a lot of it, and that always involves relationships, whether that's talking about it and then doing it, you're doing it with other people, and then trying to make sure then that the place supports that relationship-based work, and it, and it isn't [00:09:00] linear.
Yoy Bergs: Mm-hmm.
Mark Catchlove: You know, we'll talk about it, do the bit on my own, talk about it, do the bit on my own, do it with other people. That's what we mean by relationship-based work and relationship-based workplaces. And of course, that can be virtual connection as well as it can be physical connection. Mm-hmm. That's the basis of relationship-based work.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Ha-have you got any tangible examples of how the place, and let's say, for example, how our our wonderful MillerKnoll accessories and, and furniture, how does that influence this relationship-based environment?
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Mark Catchlove: I think it's the whole package. And like, I would love to say that place is the answer, but it never is on its own.
Yeah. It's always, it's the technology, it's the place, and then it's, it's the people. But it has to be well thought out and designed and makes work easy. Mm-hmm. You know? And, and it doesn't create a barrier. And I think it, that is really important, that it means I can get my work completed in a way that's enjoyable, that is successful, that meets some of my basic needs, like I need to achieve, you know, that, that kind of thing, a sense of autonomy.
But place does matter, and furniture's just a part of place. Yeah. I'd love to say furniture's the answer, but it's not.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah. But I, I guess, I guess by you having these [00:11:00] insights that you've produced through this article, in your discussions with clients about their needs, their, their furniture needs, you're able to adopt some of these principles and would it be fair to say there's not one size that fits all?
You're gonna talk about, would you, would you openly wanna understand the workplace relationships that are going on with your client to, to help you determine the best-
Mark Catchlove: Yeah,
Dr. Matt Tucker: so- ... place you can provide?
Mark Catchlove: So this, so with strategists, you need to work and understand how it works, but it's not straightforward, which is why there is no one place.
That's why we're seeing now lots of work place is lots of different settings that support those activities, and it isn't necessarily the same this week as it is next week. And that's one of the things we're seeing is, is spaces are becoming more flexible as tasks are completed, people then need to work alone or they need to work together.
But it is, we are seeing built-in change and flexibility becoming- [00:12:00] Mm-hmm ... more and more important in the workplace.
Dr. Matt Tucker: There's a lot of connection between the two pieces of research that you're both looking at.
In your views, how do you think relationships and identity influence each other?
Yoy Bergs: I would say very much. One of the things Mark just mentioned is that word of communities, right? And one of the aspects that I mentioned was that our identities one source of identity is the social categories that we belong to.
So if we feel like we belong to a certain community at our work our sense of self gets formed and shaped by that community. But secondly, that community, on the one hand, influences who we are, but also the people in that community, they validate what we are expressing. So if you are the person that brings your tattoos to the workplace and someone says, "Hey, that's a cool tattoo," you feel validated for what you're actually bringing there.
So yeah, our identities get constantly shaped and formed and [00:13:00] validated in social interactions. Mm-hmm. So the relationships you have at your work and the amount of time we're actually spending at our work, it's a major source of actually who we are.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm
Mark Catchlove: And for me, a lot of what we learn is by observation.
This starts at a very early age. You will see your children mimicking what you do, and that- Oh ... goes on through our lives.
Dr. Matt Tucker: God help them.
Mark Catchlove: Yeah, I know, it's scary. But that l- and that is really important. That's why you're seeing some of the big professional organizations mandating new starters, whether they're graduates or even whether they're, you know, they've been newly onboarded- Yeah
to come into the office to learn- Mm ... from the community and to be connective, assuming that that connection is positive as well. 'Cause this is... We do get influenced by being with people.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Mark Catchlove: Yeah. But I, I, I, I think this, this thing of having people together, social capital, social cohesion, place plays a part, and [00:14:00] this is shown a lot of time i- in research.
If you go back to Robem- Robert Putnam's work about bridging and bonding and the importance of place in, in residential communities, how you connect one community to another, it's the same in, in work, that place communicates a message. You may not like it, but every place gives you a message. Yeah.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Mark Catchlove: I'm either welcome or I'm not.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah. I mean, workplaces have gone through a fascinating evolution post-COVID, right? And the, and I, I, I dare to say the word hybrid. We've s- you know, this is a term which has been used so many times post-2020. What's interesting from academic research I've done is we, we, we...
I, I did a study on hybrid working, and if you try and find academic papers which refer to hybrid pre-2020, there are zero. They all use the word teleworking- Mm ... which just sounds so outdated now, right? You fast-forward six years and, [00:15:00] and hybrid's now getting outdated. My point is, you know, we heard a wonderful keynote this morning about how AI is changing the workplace and things like augmented workplaces now.
My point to you guys is what in... This, this presents huge challenges for a, for an individual's identity shaping and their relationship forming.
Yoy Bergs: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Don't have a squabble about this, but which one's harder to- Yeah ... to sort of navigate through? You wanna fight me on this. And, and what role, what role does the organization have in, in assisting with that?
Yoy Bergs: It, it's interesting because I do believe that identity formation becomes more fragile because those social cues that you would normally have in the workplace environment itself, so the person saying to you, "Hey, I love the tattoo," that is suddenly not there if you're working from home. So it's much more difficult to see what is accepted or not accepted.
So I think you're, you're missing these cues from the organization to understand what it means to be a worker for this particular [00:16:00] organization. Mm-hmm. And I think many organizations would benefit from workers identifying with the organization, right? Because that taps into worker engagement and, and, and people actually wanting to belong to the organization.
But I think it works both directions, right? Because also the relationship forming is also more difficult. So I think it's more like a res- reciprocal, I always hate that word that it works both sides and it actually can aggravate each other over time. But I'm curious to hear Mark's perspective there.
Mark Catchlove: But for me they're, they're both similar. Yeah. They, they are absolutely connected. I, I can take you the most beautiful workplaces but I wouldn't wanna work there.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm.
Mark Catchlove: And I can take you some pretty dreadful places and the management's great. You know, it's, it's one of those things actually that it is a combination of both.
You cannot hide some of the, you know, the bad management by giving a beautiful office. So that, that i- that is, I will, I will come down on the side that organization, the way that people are led, [00:17:00] loved, cared for, valued really matters. Place is just there to support that. It is always about people even though at the beginning I talked about-
place and people, it... We cannot forget it's always about people. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: If you think about young people coming into the profession, into a workplace environment generally- Are these things that they would be perhaps focusing on in terms of their values that they have? Like how, how will my identity be formed in this place?
How will I build relationships? Because these things are increasingly a barrier in a, in a hybrid remote- Yeah, yeah,
Yoy Bergs: yeah ...
Dr. Matt Tucker: world. Yeah.
Yoy Bergs: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Any views on that?
Yoy Bergs: Oh, well, it reminds me actually always to, to my high school time. So the moment I entered high school for the first time, the first thing you start to explore is, like, how do people behave here?
How do people dress? How do they act? And, and, and how can I tap into that? And I think it works the same with new working environments. When you start at a new company, that's the first thing you, you try to do. See, like, okay, how are people actually [00:18:00] dressing? How are they sitting? How are they using the workplace?
And if you're then tapping into a, a more hybrid workspace, that actually becomes more, more difficult for them. Yeah. And I think that community feeling and being in the office is a, is a very important reason to actually come back to the office because it helps especially young professionals in that, that exploration phase, where they're really looking at, okay, who am I going to be as a worker?
Mark Catchlove: And, and virtual working is not impossible to create community, but it's so much harder, and I think, I think we have to accept that. The other thing for me about coming to the office, I love the work that Gensler have done, and Naomi Sakamoto once said that actually the office might be one of the last few bastions of a place where we go to meet people that are different to us.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm.
Mark Catchlove: Because we live in a segregated society. We cannot... You know, we live in an area which is a similar income level, so that kind of th- And work might be one of those places where it adds [00:19:00] value to our life 'cause we're meeting people- Yeah. Yeah ... that are, that are different to us. And I think that's an important part.
Community is not always about agreement, and I, I, I fear that we've forgotten that. Yeah. That's,
Dr. Matt Tucker: that's relevant.
Yoy Bergs: Yeah. Well, we, we just had a fascinating panel discussion about hybrid work as well and, and we came to also partly the conclusion that we should not be asking ourselves how often do we want people to come back to the office, but we should ask ourselves why and when do we want people to be present at the office, both from an employee perspective and an organizational perspective, and I think that boils down to that idea of community and our sense of belonging together as human beings.
Yeah.
Dr. Matt Tucker: There, there's some key stakeholders in the organization that could have an influence on building connection and identity or relationships, a workplace strategist, an FM team a HR director. Are these stakeholders doing enough to, to ensure that the [00:20:00] identity relationships are, are successfully formed, or are there particular holes in the, in, in the system at the moment?
Mark Catchlove: So I would say the question is not are they doing enough, are-- is what they're doing good enough? Yeah. Yeah. Which is very, very different to me. Mm-hmm. You can do a lot of all this work, but if it doesn't have an impact, it doesn't matter. You can have, you know... It, it... And it's not always... Some of the best leaders are not managers.
Dr. Matt Tucker: Yeah.
Mark Catchlove: And sometimes there are great, what I call, kind of social networks created by those people, and there are people, you come into the office 'cause you know gonna, they're gonna be there. But I don't think it's the amount that people are doing. It's the quality of connection that they're setting up and supporting, whether that's through the way that we're managed or the spaces we're providing.
I-
Dr. Matt Tucker: I mean, I, I, again... Sorry, Yoy. That's okay. I'll give you a scenario. RTO, r- return to office, has been a controversial theme post-COVID [00:21:00] In, in a, in an instance where an organization is, is insisting on a return to the office for their, for, for the vast majority of their employees, surely these should be topics that should be high on the agenda to, to make people feel more comfortable going back.
Yoy Bergs: But the que- question there is oftentimes the mand- these, these sudden mandates, they come from a very strategic frame- Mm-hmm ... where the organization makes the implicit ass- assumptions that what's good for the organization is also good for the employees. And I think many organization, it's, they struggle with that idea of, of culture, productivity collaboration.
These are topics that, that are then high on the agenda, but I think when it comes to the topic of connection, it's more about feeling safe to express who you are at work, and can we then design office environments around that, rather than sticking to that policy of how often should employees come back to work?
Dr. Matt Tucker: Mm-hmm. So we're reaching the end. Oh, great. So I would like to ask you [00:22:00] both, if there was one thing that you could advise senior leaders today about how they could rethink the identity and connections that are being formed in their workplace, what would you give? I mean, you've already given a good one there, Yoy- Mm
but you've gotta narrow it down to one thing.
Mark Catchlove: For me, it's stop making assumptions that you know how your people work. Very often y- you base it on past experience. Stop making assumptions. Do observations. I, I don't just mean surveys. And also remember, if you do observations, how they're working now may not be how they should be working, and that's one of the things you make assumptions.
So, and I, I, I love one of my colleagues said, "Stop designing for people. Start designing with people" Mm-hmm And that for me is, is absolutely key.
Yoy Bergs: I completely agree in, in, in a sense that we should not reduce all of our workers to the [00:23:00] employee or the worker. Acknowledge differences and, and explore those differences together.
And, and, and also come to understand that individuals navigate multiple identities, right? It's not just the employee, but there is multiple identities that they navigate within work but also outside of the working environment. Fantastic. I think we're about time. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Dr. Matt Tucker: I could talk to you for a lot longer. But if people would like to hear more, please have a look at Yoy's research, Mark's research within MillerKnoll. There's some fantastic information there, and thank you very much for listening.
Mark Catchlove: Thank you.
Thank you.
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