Peter Ankerstjerne, CEO of Planon, joins Connected FM to discuss AI, data strategy and the power of community in shaping the future of facility management.
Today host Edward Wagoner sits down with Peter Ankerstjerne, CEO of Planon, to discuss his journey as a global influencer in facility management, emphasizing the importance of technology, data management and community in the industry. He shares insights on adapting to new technologies, the role of AI and the need for a proper data strategy. Peter also highlights the value of being part of a global community like IFMA and encourages young professionals to consider careers in facility management.
00:00 The Revolution of AI in Facility Management
00:28 Introduction to Connected FM Podcast
01:00 Meet the Influencer: Peter Ankerstjerne
01:18 Defining an IFMA Global Influencer
01:42 Introducing Peter Ankerstjerne
03:23 Peter's Perspective on Technology in FM
05:17 Adapting to Technological Changes
11:53 The Importance of Data Management
13:51 Exploring Other Technologies Beyond AI
18:02 The Role of IFMA and Global Networking
27:27 Peter's Personal Insights and Advice
31:05 Closing Remarks and Farewell
Sponsor:
This episode is sponsored by ODP Business Solutions!
Peter Ankerstjerne: [00:00:00] AI is probably the most revolutionary part of our industry in the last 20 years and using that understanding how it works and how it connects into all the data that you have available. I mean, there's probably, an abundance of data that, that we are not using.
And if you're not able to sort of employ ai to help you understand, you know, all the data and make sense of all of that. Then I think you're missing out on some great opportunities.
Host: Welcome to Connected fm, a podcast connecting you to the latest insights, tools, and resources to help you succeed in facility management. This podcast is brought to you by ifma, the leading professional association for facility managers. If you're ready to grow your network and advance in your career, go to ifma.org to get started.
Today, we're sharing the next installment of our top global FM influencer series [00:01:00] hosting. This episode is Edward Wagoner, one of our recognized influencers with more than 30 years in the real estate industry, including two decades as a technology executive. So we're gonna hand it over to him as he introduces today's guest.
Edward Wagoner: What's an IFMA Global influencer? They're a credible voice in facilities management, sharing expertise, shaping trends, connecting disciplines, advocating for innovation, and simplifying complex topics in our industry. These individuals help expand the influence of facilities management, and in doing so, our entire profession. Today's guest is one of them.
His experience covers more than three decades and most aspects of facilities management and has been named an IFMA fellow and recognition of his lifetime achievements and contributions to our industry.
He served as a member of IFMA's global board of directors from 2016 to [00:02:00] 2023 and as their global chair from 2020 to 2022. In 2021, he joined the Planon Group, a recognized world leader in smart, sustainable building management software as Chief Strategy Officer. An expert in facilities management, service management, marketing strategy, and now technology.
Welcome, IFMA global Influencer, Peter Ankerstjerne .
Peter Ankerstjerne: Thanks Eddie. It's a real pleasure to be here and be together with you on on this podcast.
Edward Wagoner: So as I think about this podcast and in ifma, which is the world's largest association of facility managers, are listening and will have access to this podcast and being named a global influencer. And, and I know personally I have been influenced by you.
I wanna offer the mic and give you the opportunity to share your thoughts and, and influence us. So take it away and share whatever's on your mind.
Peter Ankerstjerne: Oh, thanks. Well, that's quite a, sort of a crash and [00:03:00] burn type of question. Huh?
Edward Wagoner: Yeah, no pressure, no pressure.
Peter Ankerstjerne: no, no. But thanks. I mean, I'm honored to be called an influencer by ifma. I've been very long with the organization, so it's a real pleasure and, and honor to be be part of this group of individuals that have been named influencers.
So, you know, influencing, the facility managers and corporate real estate professionals in the world. I think it's really about, you know, what's happening in our industry and where do we, which direction do we wanna take our industry in? So, so I think from my perspective, having worked a lifetime especially in facilities management coming from the service provider side and then transitioning into technology.
Over the last 4, 5 years. My level of influence is probably going into the direction of technology and I think this is such an interesting area at the moment and I, I don't think there's ever been a more exciting time to be in facility management and corporate real estate [00:04:00] as, as now because it all seemed to come together around the digitalization of the workplace.
Hybrid working energy and sustainability management, that is on the top of the agenda. And also the changes that we see in in the workplace of making the workplace more attractive to make people come to the office because people have a choice now. And even though it's, of course it's also changing and it's a moving target in terms of occupancy rates and how many people are actually coming to, to, to the workplace on a daily basis or on a weekly basis.
I think as facility managers and corporate real estate professional, we really need to sort of. Step up, and use the tools that are at our disposal to make the workplace more interesting, to make it more effective and productive and attractive to also make sure that you can attract and retain talent to that, that sort of serve the organization that we are part of.
So, so I think from that perspective you know, [00:05:00] whatever I can do and how I contribute, can contribute to sort of influencing people in terms of making. Better and more enlightened choices around using technology for the betterment of the workplace. Yeah, that's where I like to sort of focus on and that's where I like to work.
Edward Wagoner: you said step up and use the tools. And as I think about. My time as a CIO I'm sure you're seeing this now as a CEO of Planon which for those who may not be familiar, is the largest global provider of smart Sustainable Building Management Software.
And that's something that has so much focus for us now, sustainability and managing the buildings. But I think back to how many people have had such successful careers in facility management. And I remember when I started in the industry, there were really no technologies outside of maybe the building management systems.
And now we're telling fms they need to adapt, they need to start using all this [00:06:00] new technology. They've got a better use data. Now we're throwing AI at them. And the headlines are saying AI is gonna take your job. So for people who maybe are afraid of making that change, I think hearing from someone with your background who started out at ISS which was a leading workplace experience and facility management company, you then went to JLL where, which is where I met you, and you ran global facilities for all of JLL's portfolios around the world, and now you're running a technology company.
You probably more than anyone understand what it takes to make that pivot. And so what advice would you give to people who are afraid of what's gonna happen with their careers and they're afraid of adapting to technology? Where should they start?
Peter Ankerstjerne: Well, I think first of all, I think they should start small. It's, it's eating the elephant in small bites. And, and start by something you can manage. You [00:07:00]know, I actually don't believe AI is gonna take over our jobs at in facility management, but, a person who understands how to use AI probably will take over your job in facility management if you don't embrace these types of technologies that are coming in.
I mean the, what we are seeing in technology now is so, revolutionary in terms of how it can help us to change the way we are managing the facilities and, and also how effective we can make our profession. And, and of course we do often see people that are sitting on the fence and, and, and are still questioning, is this something for me or is this something from our organization?
I, I would say yes, it definitely is because we do see changes, especially from companies that have no to very little experience in, in implementing and adapting systems and, and technology platforms that, they, you know, experience efficiency gains [00:08:00] of, 20 to 30%.
And I don't think anybody can afford to ignore that type of efficiency gains that are out there on the same time. It, it helps you to not only improve the efficiency of the organization, but it also helps the organization that we as facility managers are serving to, you know, retain talent, to attract new talent to come into.
You know, manage their building portfolio in a, in a better and more effective way. And I think also historically, facility management is, especially is coming out of and has been born out of the mindset of cost reductions and we still drive that cost reduction. That's still one of the headlines and one of the key components of what we are doing.
But within technology comes so many more aspects of our job, which I think is so rewarding and interesting because it helps us to operate at a different level and it also [00:09:00] elevates the profession into becoming more of a strategic, focus area for the organization. I mean, the days of the workplace as a place where people would come to work and, and you have that drive for efficiency among the workers.
And it was like, you know, that, that I envelope of, of, of people that this just had to, you know, buckle up and, and get to work. Those days are gone now. You know, people come to work for all sorts of other things other than just being productive in that. And, and we as facility managers need to understand that, that shift and, and also need to understand and be able to define our role in, in that new environment.
It's really about employee engagement. It's about attractiveness, it's about retention of, of, of key talent. It's about contributing to implementing the strategy and enforcing the culture of the company. So, so while I acknowledge that cost reductions and, and [00:10:00] managing costs is still a very important part of what we do, there are probably five, six other elements that are equally as important as, as that going forward.
And that's something we need to not only understand, but also embrace to make sure that we take the the profession to the next level.
Edward Wagoner: the cost containment, resonates with me because the number of RFPs we've both seen starts with that. But I love how you took it from cost containment to elevated experience and how important that is. You know, that's the new, you know, we still need to contain cost, but we also now need to do this.
I also liked where you said it's not gonna be AI that's taking your job. It's the person that better understands and uses ai. And I think that's such, a critical piece for people to hear from you in the fm world.
And to think about the, you know, even within ifma, the courses and the, the tools that we're putting out to help people better understand how they can learn some of the [00:11:00] technologies and. Adapt them for, for their jobs and for their roles.
Peter Ankerstjerne: No, absolutely. I think, you know, AI is probably the most revolutionary part of our industry in the last 20 years and using that understanding how it works and how it connects into all the data that you have available. I mean, there's probably, an abundance of data that, that we are not using.
And if you don't, if you're not able to sort of employ ai to help you understand, you know, all, all the data and, and make sense of all of that. Now then then I think you're missing out on some, some great opportunities. So AI can definitely help leverage your own work, but also your team's work and, and how you contribute to the success of the company.
Edward Wagoner: Now. I'm gonna make a statement, and this is your opportunity in front of the world to say, Hey, Eddie, no, you're wrong. So we'll see how this goes. But I've often, you know, for, for years a couple of years back, we were telling people, you need to clean up your data. You need to do better [00:12:00] data management.
And while we did see some progress and a lot of real estate groups, they really didn't do the types of things that, that you and I know they needed to do. With ai, if you don't get some basics right, you're not gonna get the full benefits of ai. So if you didn't clean your data up, can you still use ai or is it the people that have, have put some investment into data management will get a benefit from AI better and faster?
What's your opinion on that?
Peter Ankerstjerne: No, there's no doubt that you need a proper data strategy and you need to have clean data. The, cleaner and more sort of strict your data model is the better you'll be able to to use ai, but also any other system that you're using. I mean, AI is definitely a fantastic tool, but it's not the only tool out there.
But you're right, I think you can probably still use ai to some extent, at least, even though you got, lesser data quality. I still, you can probably make some [00:13:00] sense of it. The level of trust that you put into your data is of course questionable. I think they are AI and, and some of the models that are out there is, is probably intelligent enough at this point in time that it can also differentiate between bad data and, and good data. However, you are absolutely right when you say, you know, having a proper data strategy and a proper data model and, and cleaning and constantly cleaning and washing your data is, critical in terms of really getting some trustworthy value and insights out of your data for sure.
Edward Wagoner: I'm relieved you didn't say, Eddie, you're absolutely wrong, but people should still lean into ai. You're still not gonna get away from good data management. And so I think that's that's something I heard you say. A lot of people are excited about ai and they're talking about AI as if it will solve every problem. But there's some other technologies and things that people should not look away from, whether it's energy management, sustainability. What are [00:14:00] you seeing in other technologies that you would say, Hey, you know, we focus on ai, but you should also be looking at and having strategies around, fill in the blank.
Peter Ankerstjerne: I'm sure AI over time will develop into something that you can just implement maybe on sets of data, on, building systems like the one we are providing, but all sorts of point solutions and systems and ERP systems and stuff like that. I don't know how fine into the future that is.
I, I don't think we are there yet, so, so having a proper, you know, system stack that you're working on, whether it's your ERP system, where you have all your financial and HR data, whether it's your IWMS system or C system, whatever you want to call it, that which companies like ours are working on, or whether it's anything related to the building from sensors, smart meters building management systems HVAC system lift systems, I mean the problem that we are facing today is that there is so many systems [00:15:00] out there. I mean, we were working with a customer in the United States and we were taking over 60 bespoke systems. And collecting that to one. And of course that's a huge undertaking. It it requires a lot of migration and interaction, in order to make that work.
but I think there's really a lot of systems out there that, can help you to drive your business, but it can also be confusing if you keep it in silos. So I think one of the things that we are working a lot with, it's also to, to sort of break down the silos and allow data to flow between the systems in order to enrich the data and then make sure that you have the right data at your fingertips when and how you need it.
And then ultimately taking that data to not only make decisions on, but eventually to automate it. And, and then use AI to, to drive you know, automated decisions into your workplace where you don't e even have to interfere. You will [00:16:00] get the report, you'll get the insights, you'll get the overview and the metering and the dashboards and in order to say, you know, what's happening and what is it going, but that's really where you want to get at.
And, and you can definitely do that today. I mean, we are working on initiatives where the systems are automated and you can precondition the rooms to set temperature, start up the AV equipment, start up the lighting, you know, make the room ready for whatever meeting that you wanna have.
So you don't have to spend the first 10 minutes of a meeting figuring out, you know, how does the AV work, how do you connect to it? How do you manage the hvac because, you know, there's now 10 people in the room. So, you know, all of this stuff today can be automated. And that's just one example and one aspect of that.
But I think that's where the technology is that we are seeing is really pivoting towards easing the user experience and then doing it a way that is sustainable, that don't, that preserves energy, that digitizes the user experience in a way that it's easy and manageable to [00:17:00] work with.
So yeah, I think that's, that's really what we are looking into in terms of the new technologies that are out there.
Edward Wagoner: Hearing you say that reminds me, I actually went to a plan on event and saw some of the work you guys are doing and I've been in technology and real estate for decades, but seeing how you guys and, and others are thinking and some things you're doing, I would say to fms that are, you know, don't know where to start or we often are called in our own thought patterns in history to go out and just see what other people are thinking.
Whether it's something you can do today or your company will make the investment, it will spur, like it did for me a lot of, oh yeah. Moments. Oh, you know, wow, I didn't think about that. Or as you said, the integration across the technical silos. But I think it's also gonna drive people to think about integration across the different groups in real estate, business teams, external groups that are helping support.
And it was, it's quite eye-opening to me to see how. Much. Some of that has advanced in just a [00:18:00] little bit within some of the real estate software companies.
Peter Ankerstjerne: No, no, absolutely, and I think that's, I think also with the ifma influencer program, I think that's, that's the best thing we can do is to just share some experience and from my point of view, you know, pieces of technology or experiences and you can get some inspiration of how others are using them, then you can go to whatever service provider or technology provider or partner that you have and say, Hey, you know.
This is what, the way somebody is using this what, what can we do together? How can we take advantage of some of that learning? Ultimately it's just providing that piece of inspiration and, and sharing some experience that hopefully others can pick up and learn from, and then go with whatever partner they have to say, Hey, can we do this together? Right. So, and, and that's where, I think, that's where ifma has always for me, been very unique. I've always enjoyed coming to the conferences and, and having talks like this because you, you do always go away a little bit more inspired and a little bit more knowledgeable about, oh, if I [00:19:00] look in that direction or if I talk to these types of people or companies, then I can probably find some some cost savings, or get some new ideas in terms of how, how we can do things better and smarter in the future.
So I think that's, that's ultimately, yeah, I think the purpose and the goal of these types of conversations that we are having now.
Edward Wagoner: Speaking of fun or surprises, what's been the biggest surprise moving from. The world of managing the world's facilities to managing the software that runs the world's facilities. What's been your biggest surprise?
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Peter Ankerstjerne: I, I mean, it's, to be honest, it is probably been surprising to me how a lot of customers or companies out there are quite, foreign to the idea of using software in the way that we are using and very often don't understand the level of investment that goes into this. Not only to invest in, in whatever system they wanna buy, but really to invest in their own capability to manage a system and a partnership effectively going forward.
Very often you deal with customers to say, Hey, we wanna buy an IWMS system. And you know, it get implemented and it works and they got the data migration and everything up and running, and then they, you know, half a year later say, yeah, [00:21:00] we didn't really get the value out of it that we thought we would get.
Of course I don't ignore the fact that of course it can be the system, but, but often it's, it's simply also because they don't invest enough time and resources to, to have people who really understand how the data works what they need to do in order to get. The data enriched and, and understand how to use the system fully.
So what surprised me the most was that a lot of companies invest in the RFP process and in acquiring the system, but they don't invest enough in actually using and getting value of the system once they have acquired it.
Edward Wagoner: I think so many people think the journey ends with the technology implementation. That's when the journey's just beginning.
And something I haven't mentioned, you have been on the executive committee of ifma. You were a member of the board, you were actually chair of the board, and you've been named an IFMA fellow, which for those that don't know, that's like a lifetime achievement award.
So as, as I, as I think about your experience in, [00:22:00] IFMA coupled with the fact that. You're not from the us. You were born in Denmark. You're now living in the Netherlands in hin. Did I say that correctly?
Peter Ankerstjerne: yeah. That's very well done.
Edward Wagoner: Practice that all morning. And I think quite often when I think about, you know, people think about, you know, ifma or other associations, you know, they're in Paris and London.
Madrid and Berlin. But you know, there's benefits to people working in facilities in Slovenia, Luxembourg, Hungary, Croatia. And so what would you tell people in Europe and the rest of the world about the benefits of coming together to hear from other fms and to learn and to be a part of those local chapters?
From your experience not being a US citizen and being involved with fma.
Peter Ankerstjerne: You know, we are creating the world's biggest community of like-minded facility managers and workplace managers around the world, and if you, [00:23:00] if you're serious about your profession you need to be member of an association like ifma, because that's really where you can make a difference.
I mean, first of all, you get a hell of a lot of inspiration, and access to best practice, and just experience from other companies that you can use and leverage in your own company. But you also get access to education. You get access to, you know, events like World Workplace and Facility Fusion and, World Workplace Europe, if you're European.
You can go to the international one or you can go to the local one. You get networking experience from your local chapters where you sit together with like-minded folks and just learn and share. Also be able to contribute and give away some of your experience to others that can learn from you.
Get access to talent you can recruit from and, you know, all these things. So for me, and I never really joined a chapter because in Denmark we didn't have a chapter. We had a local Danish facility management association. But I could very quickly see, especially I was [00:24:00] working with ISS at the time. It was in 2005, I joined ifma and, and I got, I went to the World Workplace conference in Philadelphia at the time, and I got an aha moment.
'cause I thought, you know, fm, you know, we kind of coined. That expression we thought at ISS, and you know, we were, you know, the headquarters was in Denmark, so we went to the Danish event and there was a very, very small event and all of a sudden you went to this big, huge event where people were coming in from all over the world and you had.
All sorts of industry vertical companies represented there. And, and it was just an epiphany that you go and said, wow, this FM industry is really big and it's really cool and there's so many people who know stuff that, that we don't know that you can learn from. And, and I think that also pushed ISS at that time in, in a direction that, that it gave us clarity in terms of where we wanted to go strategically.
Because we, at that time, we were. A [00:25:00] cleaning company, plus having a few other services. But once we understood how big and how much development you saw within the FM sector, we really decided to go for that route very, very quickly and that would never have happened if, if we had just remained in our own company and just focused on, on ourselves and what we were doing. So, so I would definitely encourage, anybody who's serious about their profession to to join an association like ifma, because it just provides synergy. It is where you go and say, you know, I contribute to this, but what I take out from that is far greater than what I'm able to put in. So, so I think that everybody has that opportunity.
Edward Wagoner: I love that and I, you know, one of the lessons I've learned, I, I've seen everything you've mentioned. But one of the lessons that I've learned is facility management is a term that we use in facilities management, but there are. Thousands and thousands of people doing facility management jobs, but they don't have that title or they don't think of themselves as that.
And so [00:26:00] if you do anything that pertains to providing services to a building or the people that work in the building, there's probably like-minded people and opportunities to, to share and, and learn from within the IFMA membership. And so I would encourage people to check it out.
Peter Ankerstjerne: I mean, FM has often been coined as the accidental profession, right? People sort of stumble into FM and then, hey, they kind of like it. It's a cool job, and then they stay there. But, but you're absolutely right. I remember we had one IFMA session. It was actually in Napa Valley.
It was a fundraiser. And we were sitting. And then the hotel that we were staying at came in and the technical director came in and gave a speech about, you know, how they were driving their technical setup in the hotel and everything. And we told them, Hey, hey, what you're doing is actually FM.
You, you don't call it that, and maybe you don't recognize yourself as that, but, but that's exactly what you're doing. And, and he was like also a little bit surprised to say, yeah, maybe you're right. I didn't realize that. And so you're absolutely right. And that's one of the, I think one of the biggest sort of challenges for the [00:27:00] industry is to say, you.
How do we get the word out? How do we get more people to understand that whatever area within the build environment they're working with, they are sort of part of the FM industry.
Edward Wagoner: Totally agree, and I joined later in my career and I tell people. I wish that I had leaned into it much earlier and that I had gotten involved just for the benefits that, that I've received even in later in my career. I can't, I can't praise it enough. Again, you've been just been named if my global influencer, but who influences you?
Peter Ankerstjerne: Well, I think that's ooh, that's a good question. I think to be honest, I, a lot of colleagues from IFMA and also CoreNet Global and other industries, I follow quite a few online and I do take inspiration from that. Also, maybe it's a little bit of a boring answer, but my colleagues on a daily level of course influence me.
And then some of the, the big you know, people like Simon Sinek or, bill Gates from from Microsoft back in the days. So [00:28:00] these types of people, of course, also influences me to see what they're up to and what they're doing and how they're developing their businesses or coming out with new stuff like Simon Sin is doing.
So, yeah, these are probably the people that does that on a daily basis.
Edward Wagoner: What would you say to someone that's searching for a new role, either just out of school or you know, mid-career and they're not considering real estate or facilities management?
Peter Ankerstjerne: Well, I, I think they should, I would strongly encourage them to check out, what FM and corporate real estate or commercial real estate for that matter, has to offer. I think it's a really, really nice industry and it's a great career choice, I think. I think we've probably seen it the other way around, Eddie, that we maybe have started in other places and then.
Came into fm. I think the, the kids today and the young kids especially they, they have more choices than we probably did, and I think a lot of people are already starting in FM and I think they should because it's also a great place to sort of develop your career and you can always. [00:29:00] Jump to other places and, and take a different route if you wanna do that.
But, but I think facility management is a great career of choice. It gives you a lot of exposure, it gives you a lot of responsibility quickly. It gives you leadership experience if you do well in that. So I would definitely encourage you know, young graduates to at least consider a career in real estate or in facility management.
Edward Wagoner: I would back that up. I have friends and acquaintances that are constantly amazed about what I know about the industry they work in, and it's because I supported a client in that industry and what we need to learn as facility managers to be able to do that. I love this one. Planning my next vacation.
You're gonna tell me where I'm gonna go based on your favorite city in the world. So where are you sending me?
Peter Ankerstjerne: Well, you know, if you asked me before I moved, I would've said Istanbul in Turkey. That's absolutely one of my favorite cities, but I'm a little bit homesick these days. So, you know, Copenhagen during summer. [00:30:00] I don't think there's any place better in the world. It's, it's a really cool city. It's very, very clean, very safe, and it's just a fun city to go.
During the summertime, I wouldn't, I wouldn't consider Copenhagen in the, in the wintertime it's very gray and rainy and cold, but in the summertime it's magical.
Edward Wagoner: Love Copenhagen. Can't remember the name of the amusement park in the center of the city. That's really old of T. Incredible. If you've never been there, you have to check that one out.
Last question. Finish this phrase. The way to my heart is blank.
Peter Ankerstjerne: the weight of my heart is
Edward Wagoner: the, the way, the way to my heart,
Peter Ankerstjerne: The weight. Oh, sorry. The weight to my heart goes through, I don't know, food, food and wine.
Edward Wagoner: food and wine.
Peter Ankerstjerne: to be honest, I'm not a big foodie, but but yeah, you know, love, good, good food and a good meal and it's always nice to have a, you know, a nice conversation, especially over a nice meal and a, [00:31:00] and a nice glass of red wine.
I think that's, that's probably the way into my heart. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Edward Wagoner: I have to say as we close, Peter, I knew of you long before I met you. You've been such an influence on so many of us with the roles that you've had your leadership with ifma. Thank you for everything that you've done for so many of us setting an example.
And I really appreciate you joining us today and, and sharing your perspective as a global influencer. On IFMA's inaugural list. Thank you so much.
Peter Ankerstjerne: No, thank you Eddie. Thanks for inviting me to this. I really appreciate it as always. It's such a, such a pleasure talking to you. I hope we can see each other soon.
Host: Thanks for tuning into the Connected FM podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to rate and review the show because it really helps us reach more listeners just like you. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. See you next [00:32:00] time.