In this episode of the Connected FM Podcast, host Laurens Lamberts engages with young professionals at World Workplace Europe 2024 to discuss their experiences transitioning from students to facility management (FM) professionals. Guests Mathias de Roeck, Rani van Slembrouck, and others share insights on the importance of networking, leveraging opportunities from events like the student challenge, and navigating the expectations of the professional world. They emphasize the value of combining theoretical knowledge with practical experience, the significance of industry connections, and the diverse career paths available within FM. The discussion highlights both the challenges and rewards of starting a career in facility management, offering advice to current students on how to bridge the gap between education and the workforce.
In this episode of the Connected FM Podcast, host Laurens Lamberts engages with young professionals at World Workplace Europe 2024 to discuss their experiences transitioning from students to facility management (FM) professionals. Guests Mathias de Roeck, Rani van Slembrouck, and others share insights on the importance of networking, leveraging opportunities from events like the student challenge, and navigating the expectations of the professional world. They emphasize the value of combining theoretical knowledge with practical experience, the significance of industry connections, and the diverse career paths available within FM. The discussion highlights both the challenges and rewards of starting a career in facility management, offering advice to current students on how to bridge the gap between education and the workforce.
Christopher Bourke: [00:00:00] In school you just get the education, you get everything in the books, and the books tell you this, and you expect this to happen. But, if you go out there, and you're working, and you have an assignment, you have a task, and you're looking at it, and it goes completely different, it's always the same thing.
So what we do with FMN Young right now is just trying to decrease the gap between the work field and the education. So eventually when you finish your study, the transition should be easier to go to work because you know what to expect.
Host: Welcome to Connected FM, a podcast connecting you to the latest insights, tools, and resources to help you succeed in facility management. This podcast is brought to you by IFMA, the leading professional association for facility managers. If you're ready to grow your network and advance in your career, visit us Go to IFMA. org to get started. Today, host Lawrence Lamberts engages with young professionals at World Workplace Europe 2024 to discuss their experiences transitioning from [00:01:00] students to facility management professionals. Together, they share insights on the importance of networking, leveraging opportunities from events like the Student Challenge at World Workplace Europe, and navigating the expectations of the professional world.
The discussion highlights both the challenges and the rewards of starting a career in facility management. As well as offering advice to current students on how to bridge the gap between education and the workforce. Now, let's get into it.
Laurens Lamberts: Welcome to this kind of podcast and discussion that we're going to be having with young professionals from the facility management industry. And today we're at World Workplace Europe 2024. And we'd love to have this discussion with you guys, especially because we feel that. As you were here last year to part in the student challenge, we would love to kind of hear your input about how to make that transition from being a student to now going into the work field for the first time, really, for you guys.
So, I'm wondering, my first question probably is, how was that kind of transition? Was that something that you felt comfortable with? Did you feel prepared? Or did you feel like this was still something [00:02:00] that took a lot of figuring out?
Mathias de Roeck: Yeah, I think that's participating the student chance last year was really a key point in the kind of young career we have.
We did it. We are two from Belgium and we did with the group and we won then and it gives us a lot of opportunities after that. Also, if I want to look for a job, it was also really fast. I get a lot of offers in the first weeks and I think I decided on eight days where I want to work. Once people are calling, texting, it's yeah.
Participating on events like this, give me a lot of opportunities for the future. It's very important to do that. You network here a lot. You met a lot of people. We went then also to Denver last year. You see a lot of familiar faces again here. And yeah, it's very nice to be back, but also to see. what the future can bring.
Every time you can either can maybe have some new opportunities after that, because yeah, some people have that or that. And it's, yeah, for me, it was like the key point that changed my FM career.
Laurens Lamberts: Wow, that's great feedback. So yeah, thanks very much. Do you share that kind of experience?
Rani van Slembrouck: Yeah, I had the [00:03:00] same and I, I shared the knowledge with the others, with the networking and the insights from different people.
When I get to the work field, it was like, I have the basics from them. But being in the work field, I learned so much, so much about my new connection and, and trainings and stuff like this. So yeah.
Laurens Lamberts: Right. So kind of that combination perhaps with your education, that kind of, that's the theory behind everything.
You've had this experience kind of looking around what the future might hold for you as an employee and then making that transition and being kind of trained in that way. Is that kind of the way I'm getting on? Yeah. Good. So yeah, that's great to hear again, feedback. Is the experience similar this year?
What work plans for you guys?
Mathias de Roeck: Yeah, this year is a bit different because last year we thought, yeah, we are new in the business and, and who are, who are all the people that are around here. But now you see, yeah, we, a lot of people come say hi and recognize us from the last year or from Denver. And it's a bit more chill for us.
We know here a lot more people and we can have a chat with a lot of people. Also, we [00:04:00] slept in the same hotel, they're at the bar or drink and it's very nice to see them and that they recognize us also. Yeah. Yeah, I see that there are a lot of more students this year, because I'm glad to be here also. And this year there were 24.
Last year we are just with eight or nine, I think. This is a big difference and that mentality, that mean that for the young students, it's a very unique chance and that they take the chance. There are a lot of teachers here. There are a lot of, Schools here with students and that, that make us really important.
You, it's a job that's not really common with a lot of people. And I need to tell to my family sometimes what is just FM. And yeah, and I studied it for four years. And if you see them here, that there are a lot of young people, a lot of professionals would talk with the young people. I think we make a good move to, to make it a bit broader and a bit more common in yeah, the, just in just the, the, the living one of people.
Laurens Lamberts: Because I think it kind of establishing that bridge between. People studying and people working. It's very difficult to do sometimes because people are so focused on what they're studying, what they're working. So having found that bridge feed and to be able to use that, I think that's a very valuable resource.[00:05:00]
Yeah. Events
Mathias de Roeck: like this are thinking a very good bridge to do that kind of things. Hey, you see this, the students are networking also. It's not that they're just working on the student channels, but they are connecting with people. They go to listen to that speaker or to the creative lab. And that made the bridge an ideal bridge, I think, for starting our career here.
Loes Thomassen: From a student, I'm this year participating in a student challenge. This is my first time being at World Workplace, right? So it was actually very nice that the way that we were welcomed, you walk in and everyone just gives you a big hug. It's great how you have that bridge, but also to see how many different bridges there are within facility management.
And I think that that has opened my eyes. During these past day and a half, two days. Yeah. Great. Yeah, definitely. Wonderful.
Christopher Bourke: Is that a similar experience for you? Yeah. So I'm also still a student, but I started last year when we went to Denver, one of the students that got selected to go to Denver as well.
That's where it all kicked off for me. So I started [00:06:00] networking. I started meeting the right people. I started talking with people who were already in the professional work field and it was a really learning full experience. So before I went to Denver, but to be honest, I didn't have any clue of them truly was.
Yeah. And after I came back, I was like, okay, I'm interested. I know what I want to do. I know I want to do this. So I started networking more and eventually, well, now I'm on the board of FME Young, I'm able to combine it with my study, I'm working as a refugee at a refugee shelter for Ukrainians as a location manager, also facility management.
And these conferences and stuff, I just did them on the side to increase my network, keep going and just keep growing because I think that's the way to go now. And things like these, they open doors for you and you just have to take the chance because otherwise it's really difficult to get higher up.
Laurens Lamberts: Right. And it's good to hear that you, that made you, that, that was a moment where you would Where you felt that kind of click, this is what FM means to me. Do you remember what that moment was? Was it like a lecturer? Was it somebody you talked to?
Christopher Bourke: The thing was like, I was the youngest over there and I remember walking in and I was like, okay, these guys, they did all the [00:07:00] things that I wanted to do.
And then you start talking to people and even the biggest guys in the work field, they stay humble. That's the thing that was like, okay, you know what? You, you have so many companies while you've done it all, you've made it all. And they still say to me, yeah, you're a student. I want to teach you how I did it.
Then I was like, okay, it's a different mindset than I'm used to because I explored different areas. But for me, the point that I was like, okay, this is what I want to do was the moment when I walked there and I saw people speaking for a couple, well, hundreds, even a thousand people. And I was like, okay.
I'm interested. That's my kind of work I want to do in the future as well. So, you know, let's do it. Let's give it a try and let's see how far it goes. And until now it's going in the right direction, I think. I think the more you come,
Mathias de Roeck: the more it feels like a bit of family. It is, it is not that it's, they're not more strangers anymore.
We are not strangers for them, but it's the other way also. I think everybody is so friendly and so kind that it feels like a bit of family to come back as we, I said it to Ronnie, we, I worked. Until seven. And then I said, yeah, we take a car, we come to here and it's just enjoying [00:08:00] every moment to be here and to be glad to be back and then see everyone back also because we don't see each other often.
It's very international. You're people from the States, Sweden, Denmark, from everywhere. But when we see each other, it feels like a bit, yeah, coming home, coming back to each other and to connect and to chat with what's about the past few months of what have you done there or what was it there? And yeah, it feels just like a good sign to be here.
Laurens Lamberts: Yeah, it's great. We've been very positive so far, which is good, which is of course a great way to start off. Were there also any difficulties when you're, when you're making that transition, when you're like, you're a student and you're making, you're, I mean, you're graduated and you're very happy, of course, but now you have to look for a job.
Were there any difficulties in that transition period for any of you guys?
Rani van Slembrouck: For me, it was a little bit of easy because I did my internship and then I get the offer to work there. So it was a easy transition. Thank you. But the way of working in business was a little bit difficult because they all were all kind of things that you didn't expect [00:09:00] and that was difficult, but it's challenged and I love challenges.
So. Yeah, I'm growing and
Laurens Lamberts: good. So you're saying kind of like the transition from the expectations that people have of you maybe.
Rani van Slembrouck: Yeah. They expect you. You know, you know it all. You did the education and it's like, no, I don't know it all. I still need to learn. I have a colleague who's been. I think 30 years in the business just the students, so the, the connection because of the experience and the knowledge is a good way of working and we learn from each other.
And
Laurens Lamberts: that's, you say just the student and to me that sounds like somehow there's a kind of like a difference between the two of you, but I think the way you end that you learn from each other and that you kind of share. You all different points of view. I think that's especially valuable. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a similar transition from internship to work?
Or did you find a job?
Mathias de Roeck: I I worked a few months in my internship just because I have in my last year, just my, yeah, my master's thesis and the internship. And then I was looking for a job, but [00:10:00] after this one, it was really, I loved it to be here, but the people expected a lot and they saw it, that we won here and that you did that.
And that was a bits. Yeah, it make it easier to search for a job, but also difficult because yeah, they think, yeah, you can, like Ronnie said, we are just students that have a theory in the classes and now you need to combine it with the practice side. And that makes it a bit difficult because in theory, all the things are going well and not bad.
And now you see, Hey, I work for a company and I'm there with the team responsible for nine buildings in Belgium and then 1, 100 cars, because we had a lot of technicians on the road. And you see every day, there are problems and not the problems that you see on the classes on the theory. And that makes us a bit difficult to see how can I manage that?
And how can I do that? Because you see all the good things. And for me, it was a bit. Yeah. I'm glad that I'm there. I'm now there for seven months, I think, but it's a bit, yeah. Every day I'm learning, searching for new things. Can we develop that better? [00:11:00] Or is it maybe that an option to do for the company, but it's not that easy to save and I'm graduated and I'm searching for a job because FM is so broad.
You can go to the left, to the right, to the middle, and there are so many options and then you need. To, to see what you really want. Do you want to go to the left? Fine. And if it's not the good thing, then you go to the right. And that makes it also nice that you have, if I'm done now, there are a lot of opportunities next and the other direction, but you need to see that for you.
And it's not easy as a student to, to know that to what you want, because you see from all the things a bit. but not a lot from all the things. Right. And then to now we see we have both a different job, but now we see more the details, more the, the bigger thing. And then. I think to do that, you see one, yeah, now I want to do that, or the soft to harsh facilities or another direction, more event management, that kind of things.
And that are the things that you learn from working and not from studying.
Host: Hey FMs, get ready for an unforgettable [00:12:00] experience and amazing networking opportunities at this year's World's Workplace Conference and Expo on October 9 11 in San Antonio, Texas. Don't miss our must attend welcome reception where the fun kicks off with a fiesta themed party. Attend our Explore FM event, meet new faces at the first timers reception, and connect with future leaders at the student and young professional reception.
Plus, enjoy professional networking throughout the expo hall, educational sessions, and networking group activities. World's Workplace is one of the best ways to connect with experts in the industry and grow your professional network. Register today at worldworkplace. ifma. org. See you there!
Laurens Lamberts: Are there any worries for those that don't have a job yet are still studying? Are there worries about the process of making that transition? Or do you have a clear idea of what you think you would like to end up doing?
Christopher Bourke: Well, the thing is, like I said, I'm part of the FMN young board and what we [00:13:00] try to do is that exactly the transition shouldn't be so big.
As people expect, because the problem like, like Matias said is, in school you just get the education, you get everything in the books, and the books tell you this, and you expect this to happen. But, if you go out there, and you're working, and you have, you have an assignment, you have a task, and you're looking at it, and it goes completely different, it's always the same thing.
So what we do with FMN Young right now is just trying to decrease the gap. Between the work field and the education. So eventually when you finish your study, the transition should be easier to go to work because you know what to expect. So I think if there are possibilities to, to decrease the gap, like I said, between education and and the work field, but besides that you have to be able to do it on your own, you, because we offer you help, we try to, you know, get our students and say, tell them, like explain to them what we do.
But still, it's very on your own if you really want to do it. You have to, you have to be motivated. You have to make the decision if you're [00:14:00] going for that side of the road, because otherwise, you're If you're like, yeah, no worries. We'll do it by ourselves. I think the transition will be bigger than when you.
Mathias de Roeck: And that's also the thing that we decided last year to go. You need to make that step. Yeah. From a student, it's not that easy to say, I come to a conference where there are 500 people around the world and I have come to say, hi, it's not that easy that people think. And we are, I think the education in Belgium is almost 30 years, but there, but I think we are one of the first that were here.
And you need to make that step and you need to decide what do I really want by myself? If I'm fine, do it. Yeah. Just a job that doesn't need to be international. Doesn't need to people. It's also fine. But if you want this one, you need to make a few decisions and make a big, yeah. You made steps around the the period that you're studying.
And yeah, I think it's very important that you decide what you want. And it's fine for people that they do what they do, but I love it to do here and to do, to see all the people back. And that was also the reason that we did it last year. We came here, we said to each other, what are we going to do now?
Who [00:15:00] are all these people? We, who are they? And now we are here and we said, yeah, we can to say, All of the people high and yeah, we are back and yeah, is that what you want? Fine. But like Chris said in Belgium also, and we have even my own Belgium. It's the same thing that we need to connect the professionals with the young students, because we have a, normally in April we, we should have an event that's a professionals connected to students, like a kind of speed dating to see, yeah, who are they?
What did they do? Because a lot of people didn't study FM, but how do they roll into that? How do they manage that and, and what do they, do they expect from the students? Because we talk always about Gen Z, but it's not, we need to, like Rani said, work together. I have also, my manager is 20 years older and his manager also 10 years older.
But we have meetings that we, everyone has his input. Everyone has his own opinion. And it's not that some opinion is wrong or some opinion is right. You need to see why do they say that or why do they think that's right? And then you can do a combined solution that fits for [00:16:00] the project that you're working on or for the project that you're working on.
And that's, I think you need to see what people really want.
Rani van Slembrouck: Yeah. Everyone is, is an individual, so you have to listen to each other and that's the communication you have with each other to work good. I think as a student for me
Loes Thomassen: who is not in the board, I haven't thought about that to be honest. I am a second year student.
I have just gone through the first semester of second year. First year is like, Oh, it's new. It's exciting. You know, and the second year is okay. Here we are again. For my third year, I'm going abroad for my minor and my internship. And I'm not thinking about what happens after that. So I'm so focused on the next step in my education that I Do not think about jobs per se, but when I got here and actually to see the companies over here showcasing what their product is, so showcasing their solutions, what they do, how they approach it, what their goal is, it makes you start to think like, huh, maybe I want to [00:17:00] do something like that.
Maybe I want to make information systems. Maybe I want to create water with caffeine in it, for instance, it's, it actually opens up your eyes so much to, as I mentioned before, to see what else is out there. And. That also is the first step to thinking what you want to do because I don't know how it is in school for you, but city management is very broad, but impossible to talk about all of the single aspects of city management.
And this is one of the things that can show to you what some examples. The bigger examples and that's, I think that's very nice and I enjoy it a lot. But yeah, as I mentioned, I didn't really think about it yet. I
Mathias de Roeck: think you need to take the time to, to develop you in every step you take and every chance you want to take.
But it's important if you want to do some things like this, that you take all the chances you get. But you don't need to be in a hurry or in a run. You have time. The study is almost one year and a half [00:18:00] now from now. And you need to take that time to develop yourself and to see in what direction that I want, because if you say today, I want to do this one, it can be totally different in one and a half year.
And. I think it's very important that we did it also. You need to take the time to, to step by step and not skip them. Yeah. And you need to enjoy the events like this and the chances you get. And like FMN Young also, you need to come back to the events and you have organizations like EuroFM, IFMAC, LA, in the Netherlands, there are a lot of more organizations than we have in Belgium.
But if you take your own time to do this kind of things, I think the future look good. And you know them, you know, the people and the people don't forget you. It's the same with us. They don't forget who you are, because the students or the young professionals are the important ones for the future, because now they have a career, but yeah, at one time they are going to retire also, and they need to have the young professionals a bit, not to form them up, but to make the process ongoing, and then, if you take your time, everything will be alright.
Christopher Bourke: Yeah, I agree [00:19:00] with that, sorry if I interrupt, but The thing is, like, once a student goes to, like, a conference or anything, they realize how much value it has for their future. But the point of getting them to go to the conference, that's the thing that we're struggling with. That's my point as well. That's what I wanted to do.
So, like, the reason you're here is probably because you're participating in the student challenge. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Because you signed up for something and you have to be here also for the, for the end results and stuff. Yeah. What we've been noticing, if we go to a student and we say, okay, you know what, we have a conference and we'll, we will be able to get you a ticket.
It's super interesting. It's perfect for your future. You can increase your network, everything. They'll be like, yeah, I'm in my second year. I've still got some time. I'll come later. Because that's how they think. They're like, yeah, I'll do those things in my last year, right before I start working, but when you're beginning your last year, then the transition isn't going to change.
So that's what we're trying to do, especially the first year, the second year, third year students, they have to go to those conferences. They have to increase the network [00:20:00] before it's not too late. But I think that we can make a difference. It's also important that we have the
Mathias de Roeck: schools with that process also, because if you see it in Belgium, if you have two organizations, IFMA Belfa.
And there is a class in, at the school in Ghent that they need to participate one or two events a year from one of these organizations to see, to see what we are doing with IFMA, what, to see what we are doing with BELFA, it's the same with UFMN, URFM, you have a lot of organizations, but I think it's not only the students, but it's a bigger, the bigger thing we need to have the, the teachers with us because if the teachers don't believe in the process of the thing, what IFMA is doing, yeah, then why do they, why are the students want to come?
Yeah. I have a class, I think three months ago at the, at Odyssey. And I'm the first one, I think in 15 years, we'll talk about IFMA. And if you see how big it's here, it's a bit strange that they don't know it because I told them, are you aware of what IFMA is doing? Not also the big thing. And because this is, it's unique, but we have in every country, a chapter.
And they said no. [00:21:00] And that's a bit the point where you are having in Belgium a problem. It's not that popular. People don't know what we are doing. And yeah, how do they come to the events? And then, and exactly the entrance for students is always free and they can come and they can have a drink and, and, and have something to eat.
But like you said, the step to making it from the class to coming, like I can give seven classes about IFMA, but then they, the students need to come by themselves. I cannot pick them up and say, we are going together. And from a teacher's point
Laurens Lamberts: of view, that's definitely something that I'm thinking about a lot.
Right. So how do I actually convince my students that this is something valuable to them? So that might be a nice follow up question. So how do we actually get students in touch with IFMA, EurofM, all these organizations, associations? Yeah. Yeah. And how do we lower that kind of barrier that you guys are talking about?
Because the classroom is safe after a while. Yeah. When you start here, it was scary, right? The classroom, new people. But then after a while, you're used to that. And then they're still talking about the next step, which is internships, or which is going to these kinds of like events, right? Or maybe even joining some kind of youth association.
So how do we make that kind of [00:22:00] barrier a bit lower? Yeah. Easier to break through. So what,
Christopher Bourke: what we're trying to do now from FMN Young is, we try to get in contact with different schools. And we offered them to do like a reading or something to explain to FM students what is IFMA, what is FMN, what is Euro FM.
Just explain it to them, just let them know that it's there, because a lot of students, like Mathias said, they have no clue what it is. If you go to a facility manager student and you ask them what's IFMA, they'll look at you and they have no clue.
Loes Thomassen: They probably know what it stands for, but that's it.
That's mostly because it has, for me at school, it has been mentioned. But, the opportunities, yeah, I had to, a classmate told me like, hey, This might be fun for you. You should sign up. And I was like, Oh yeah, you're right. But it, it didn't come directly from the school. And also my school, I'm doing the international city management course.
When I tell Dutch students that I am going here, they're like, How did you do that? They don't know. And. Yeah,
Christopher Bourke: but that's the point. It's not difficult to get here. No, no, I
Rani van Slembrouck: don't. [00:23:00] I think they need some mentorship for example, examples. They need to be made aware. Perhaps they just need an explanation. Perhaps they just need to
Christopher Bourke: know what it is and what values it has for them.
Yeah, exactly. They just, they don't know that it
Loes Thomassen: exists. They are not aware of the opportunities that you can get and how you can get in. And that's maybe something that, yeah, I don't know, maybe it has to change or changes can be made. But the first step is to have everyone in facility management know about these conferences and.
Mathias de Roeck: I saw it also after the closet I give to the students in Belgium. Yeah. After that, I think there were six or seven students at the next event of IFMA and they want to see it. And it's like a good thing. Yeah. We want it. And it was for the school. Yeah. Very good thing. And they want to promote it and it's fine for me, but if we can do something, I think the people that just are graduated, they are very important to do it also for the students, because we are also very young people and we know them.
I mean, we were on the, the [00:24:00] same process as them. And like after that, also people text me on LinkedIn fun. How can I get to the next Christmas party from if I am Belgium, how can I get to do this one? Like here also, it is one student from Belgium also that not do the student challenge, but they want to come.
Because they hear the story, they hear what we can do, what IFMA and the organizations can do, and what what something like this is for your career or something for the future. Because I think it's not only the professionals and the schools that are very, yeah, are very interesting or that they need to participate, but also the, the people the next year that graduated, eh, just one, two, three years graduated.
We have the same process as them and now we can see, I know how they feel at the first, the first step to make to come. It was very difficult to say, no, I book a hotel and I'm leaving and we know the feeling and then we can say, yeah, maybe it's also good for you and you need to do it because it's not scary because everyone is friendly.
Everyone is kind and you can do a lot of things with it. I think it's a lot [00:25:00] of groups together to make the young people come to heroes. It's not just the schools or not just the teachers or the professionals. I think it's combining all by themselves.
Laurens Lamberts: I agree. And if I can put on my teacher hat for just a second, as well as chair of education, like my main role is trying to get you guys here, right.
Kind of trying to convince people. So you can imagine sometimes there's a bit of frustration on my end that. I think this is such a great event and there's so many people here who leave with such a positive feeling that I wonder why doesn't just every student want to go. And so it's good to hear that, that you say, okay, maybe perhaps we can play a role in that because I'm 27 years old.
I'm not that old yet. But even I feel kind of the difference between teacher, student, like if a teacher says something to a student, it feels far away, distant, some kind of somehow not related or connected to them. Right. But if they listen to a student. Or, or maybe a young professionals just started working that comes much closer.
So I think if you guys do play a role in that and give those presentations or lessons, like you said, I think that's a super effective way of getting people here [00:26:00] and to, well, to share in the same opportunities that you guys have now or that you've had last year.
Mathias de Roeck: Yeah. And I think like what Chris did with FMN Young and we with Young IFMA Belgium, I think that's also very important that we have the bigger organization FMN and IFMA, but also, yeah, they start with the young teams.
to also connect the young professionals or the students with the really professionals. And I think that's very important what he does, what we does to connect each other. And then to see, Hey, but Tom is speaking at Tom, Rekard van Bronckhorst is speaking each two times. He's coming also to here. We know them.
Ah, maybe it's interesting to go. And then they say, we are here back. And then I think it's a lot. If you know that the people are, Interesting. And they want to listen and they want to help you. Like now it's everybody. Yeah. Finishing their last tests in Belgium to say this and all the surveys to fill in and, have you held them all?
Yeah, it is. And they, and we help them. And we hope also that it's a bit a wind for the boat. We want to see them here, but we want. To get them here also. And, like, yeah, for a teacher it's not that easy but I saw well, after the class that I gave, the [00:27:00] people just came next to me, sitting, have a chat, can we talk about that, how was that experience, yeah, because, and we went to the states, how was that, so kind of things, it was just, There was not a big distance between us.
It was just, yeah, they are one year younger than me because it was just like friends and that's indeed very important.
Loes Thomassen: Conclusion. If you're watching this, come to IFMA. It's so much fun. Definitely.
Host: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you really enjoyed this episode. And as always, please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast for more incredible content.