Matt Tucker, IFMA’s Director of Research and Professor of Facility Management, speaks with FM students and graduates Christopher Bourke, Daniëlle van't Westeinde, and Mathias De Roeck about how AI tools like ChatGPT are shaping FM education. They reflect on the importance of critical thinking, ethical use, and integrating data and AI skills into the curriculum.
In this episode, host Matt Tucker, Director of Research at IFMA and Professor of Facility Management, speaks with three facility management students and graduates: Christopher Bourke from The Hague University of Applied Sciences, Daniëlle van't Westeinde from Tilburg University, and Mathias De Roeck, a Fleet and Facility Coordinator in Belgium. They discuss the role of ChatGPT in their education and future careers, noting mixed implementations and the importance of using it as a tool rather than a replacement for critical thinking. They highlight the need for curriculum to include data analytics and proper AI utilization techniques to better prepare students for the evolving industry.
This episode is sponsored by ABM! Learn more about ABM here.
Matt Tucker: [00:00:00] There's so much data that is at your disposal in the industry, and it's coming from all different areas and data sources. The ability for you to understand what that data's saying and the accuracy of that data is important. Whether you use an AI tool to generate that, that's fine, but the critical thinking to interpret it, that's really important.
Host: Welcome to Connected fm, a podcast connecting you to the latest insights, tools, and resources to help you succeed in facility management. This podcast is brought to you by ifma, the leading professional association for facility managers. If you're ready to grow your network and advance in your career, go to ifma.org to get started.
In today's episode, host Matt Tucker, the Director of research at ifma speaks with three facility management students in recent graduates. Christopher Burke from the hag University of Applied Science, Daniella Vuk from Tilburg University and Mathias [00:01:00] Dvu, a fleet and facility coordinator in Belgium. They share how AI tools like Chat, GBT are shaping their FM education and their future careers, reflecting on the importance of critical thinking, ethical use, and integrating data and AI skills into the curriculum.
Now, let's get into it.
Matt Tucker: Welcome to this edition of the connected FM podcast. I am delighted to be here with three wonderful, bright shining minds of the industry. We have some existing students and graduates from the FM industry. My name's Matt Tucker. I am the director of research for ifma and also spend part of my time working as a professor in facility management.
So what we want to talk about within this podcast is about the role of generative ai, specifically Chat, GPT in this instance. The influence it's having on these guys in their [00:02:00] education and the influence it's having on their future careers. So I'm delighted that we have with me, Chris, Danielle, and Mattias.
And we're gonna have an interesting conversation, hopefully about this. So welcome guys. Would you like to briefly introduce yourselves? I'll start with Chris
Christopher Bourke: On my right. Yeah, my name's Chris student at the Hague University of A Applied Scientists in the Netherlands. And besides I'm an FMN Young Board member.
Thank you, Chris.
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: Yeah. So my name is Daniëlle van 't Westeinde. I just finished my master about organizational and management studies at Tilbrook University.
Mathias De Roeck: My name is Mathias De Roeck. I did a bachelor in at, and now I already work one year and a half as a fleet and facility coordinator for a company in Belgium.
Matt Tucker: Okay, thank you. So I'm gonna go to you first, Chris, because you're still studying, right? How how is chat GPT being implemented within your curriculum? Is it used actively or is it something that the professors are restricting?
Christopher Bourke: I think. [00:03:00] There's a balance because it's really difficult for teachers to, to make the decision whether they should support the fact that Chat GPT should be used for educational purposes.
But if I look at my own experience is that a lot of students do use it. The question is whether they use it as a tool or they fully rely on chat GPT. And most students are at the moment hanging on side and fully rely on chat GPT and using it to create basically everything and they won't use their own brain anymore to, to see whether it's truly useful.
What Chat GPT gives them. And there are some students who just use it as a tool to get to the end result and to get inspiration from Chat GPT instead of letting me create the entire idea.
Matt Tucker: Okay. And what's been your experience, Danielle, with using it?
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: Yeah, I think the same, like, I mean, I look at the university, some professors.
Really stimulated, but more for assisting you in for certain activities. Others, like see it more as an enemy. [00:04:00] So, yeah, I think the same as Chris.
Matt Tucker: Now I'll come over to you, Mathias, because you've been working in the industry for a year or so now. Right. And ifma only a few days ago released its first big report on the role of AI in, in fm.
It's a great report if you want to check it out on the ifma website. But clearly AI has a role within the FM industry. So in your short time working in the industry, how have you experienced the use of AI and the likes of chat? PTI
Mathias De Roeck: liked it very good. We use it in a company. The first site, not really.
And then we can, we have a look with the CO what we can do about it, because we have a lot of technicians, different countries, different languages, and it's sometimes very difficult to see how can we bring the information for everybody on a good thing. And then we look to chat GPT and we made a fleet management some kind of book.
And when we put it in chat GBT in all different languages. So the people can just [00:05:00] ask one questions in their own languages and they can get, yeah, a lot of information about it. Eh, I have damage on my car, what do I need to do? It will write the information that we put in it.
I think it's very interesting to use it, but we need to be careful if the information is correct, if the information is on a good thing. Because sometimes it can also be used as a mistake or with wrong information. And how do we know? When it's correct on how do we know it's some not correct, like a fake video from deep fake or something like that.
Yeah. Some people believe it's very quick, but then you need to see the details. If you are looking on the smartphone, it's gonna be a real video. But if you maybe have a laptop, you can see bigger details and then you see, oh, I listen to it and it's all wrong. That's something I need to learn about.
How do we use it correctly? But for some things it's helped us a lot in the company.
Are
Matt Tucker: you seeing these checks and balances to make sure it's, that the data is accurate? Are you seeing that happening within the industry since you've been in it?
Mathias De Roeck: Yeah, I think it's, we are more developing and we see a lot of more correct information at the first site, [00:06:00] at the com, at the educations also, we cannot use it because it was all fake and it was just the beginning from chat, GBT.
But now I see, I give a lecture to my, to the students and ODC also and they said, yeah, we can use this from task. We get some information that we can use from chat GBT. And now in the work field also, we are going to see if we can do something like for the facilities also. We did this for the fleet management, but also not for other.
Compartment and I think the information is more and more correctly and we will see in the future how correctly it'll be. Because if you put a lot in it, it can make sentences that are not true. And they will pick something from page one to 10 and then they make some wrong things about it. But for now, I think we are still developing.
Still developing in the good way, I think. So
Matt Tucker: for Danielle and Chris, who, you know, you've recently come out of education, you're still in it. How what do you think are the key skills that you want to take from using AI tools in education? That you wanna transition them into industry? What do you think the, [00:07:00] like the good practice things are that you want to take rather than some of your peers that, as you say, are probably misusing it and they're taking information for granted. Which clearly is gonna become an issue for them if they wanna move into the industry. So what do you see the good practice skills that you want to take forward?
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: Yeah. So I think it's all about critical thinking, right? Exactly. So, yeah. Yeah.
Christopher Bourke: You have to be able to make your own judgment.
And not to fully rely on chat GPT, you can use it as a tool to come to an answer. But in the end, if chat GPT gives you an answer, you need to be able to read it and make your own judgment whether it's true or whether you can use it in the future or not.
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: Yeah. So you should not fully rely on it.
No. But it should assist you or Yeah. Yeah. You can use it for more simple task.
Christopher Bourke: Yeah. So, so if there's things where you don't need necessarily. A specific answer, you can use it to to do it the tasks it wants you to do. But the most important [00:08:00] thing like, like Daniella said, is critical thinking.
So you have to be able to make the judgment. Like if I ask you something, I get an answer. Is it something I can use? Is it true? The references, for example chat. GPT often uses references that are made up. So you always have to check the references. But the question is, yeah, what are the skills you.
Need or you get from using chat GBT and what's important that you keep by yourself. Yeah, I think critical thinking is the most important one to to take that with it.
Matt Tucker: Yeah, I think that's a really good answer. And you know what you are all gonna find, and I'm sure maths, you're seeing this already.
There's so much data that is at your disposal in the industry, and it's coming from all different areas and different data sources. The ability for you to understand what that data's saying and the accuracy of that data is important. Whether you use an AI tool to generate that's fine. But the critical thinking to interpret it, that's really important.
Exactly. So it's good that you understand that, and you are obviously, you know, ICU guys as the future leaders of this industry, so [00:09:00] having your knowledge on how you can harness these skills and take them into the industry is really important. Is there any other perspectives that you have that you're worried about or you see as it an exciting thing about how you can use some of these new technologies and how you can bring them into the
Mathias De Roeck: industry?
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Mathias De Roeck: I think it's an interesting thing, but we need, like Riz already said, that we need to be aware of it because yeah, it can also be used at the worst site.
It's not always a good thing that we can use for it. It can be very helpful in the future. I think also, like we did already now, and look for also for the educations, they need, I think, to stimulate it like a side, but also be aware of it because not everything you can use it for is a good thing.
If you make the fake information, fake videos, it's already, yeah. It's all on the internet. It's very quick. It's very, yeah. For every people can touch it and then I think we need to be aware, but it's very good and interesting and I think it's a better thing. It's make it more easier sometimes for the students and also in the work field that we can.
The we can make programs better, faster and easier, and I think that's a good thing, but aware and critical thinking, like Daniella said, is a very important thing.
Christopher Bourke: Yeah. Like [00:11:00] I fully agree what with what you're saying, but like I said, it should be used as a tool because it's dangerous if you fully rely on it.
And chat tea just. Keeps progressing, will never, like, like Matt said before, it will never go any worse. It's just the standards that will go higher. So the danger in that is there is a chance students will get lazy because they will be able to use Jet GBT to finish their degree their bachelor's or university.
So the important thing from my side is, maybe we four are on the same line, but we also have to tell the people that you see, they're fully relying on chat. Gt Tell them keep thinking by yourself. You know, stay conscious because you can't rely on the program fully, maybe in a couple years when it's so, so ized.
And it's so smart that it truly gives answers that are always true. But for now. The most important thing, or the message I would give is just keep always thinking by yourself. You know, always check whether the answer is correct or whether it's logical and don't fully rely on certain answers. It gives
Mathias De Roeck: no [00:12:00] I, sorry.
I think I get once a question from a student of if I can help her with the writing her thesis and she sent me some information about an interview that you want to do with me about questions, and I write my thesis by myself about electric charging. And how does it evaluate for companies? What do you need?
Prepare for it. And they was a, and yeah, subject was likewise. It's also about that. And she sent me information and was looking to the information and I thought, what is this? Where come this from? Yeah. And they, and I asked her, I called her and I said, yeah, where do you get all this information from? Yeah.
I used I sent chat, GPT five questions and this was the answer. But I said yeah. The half of it is not true. There were there, there were, yeah. Numbers, process, and it was all not correct. And that's what I mean. Yeah. You need to be aware because if you then yeah. Do it for school. Yeah. It's also not gonna be perfect.
And that's the thing that we say if you can help it, but it cannot completely fulfill your task.
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: Yeah, exactly. And yeah. Otherwise you'll also lose your knowledge if you only rely on SHE [00:13:00] GPT. Yeah.
Mathias De Roeck: All your knowledge is gonna be in your laptop, and that's exactly,
Matt Tucker: so I'm gonna ask you one final question.
If you were in charge of designing a new FM program Yeah. For your universities, right? What would be the one thing you would want to implement into that program, which relates to ai? Gen ai.
Mathias De Roeck: I think it's a very difficult one because FM is so broad. We have a lot of topics that we can put in it, but I think if I'm not, I missed on my education, I missed the data side.
We don't have that. We don't just purely theoretically, but we don't have, how do you manage data? What are you going to do with the data? We don't have any. Yeah, professor about it. It was not included in the education, and then I see that now. I miss that at my company because I need to start from scratch.
We miss the information. How I going to use it? What are we going to do with it? We have 11 buildings. How can we combine it? What are we going to learn about it? And that's one thing that I miss now, and I, if [00:14:00] I then to answer in your question, data analytics, how do you going to do it and what are we going to do it?
Matt Tucker: How about you, Danielle? Anyone
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: else? No, I totally agree with you. Yeah.
Christopher Bourke: Great. I agree as well. I think data is extremely important. Awareness is important. Data's important, and I think you need teachers who accept the fact that you will want to useche GPT because if a teacher is from a different generation and doesn't really know what it is and is against using chat GPT, then it's really difficult for students to start using chat GPT and prepare themselves for the work field.
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: Yeah, so I think it's really about guiding you how to use it.
Christopher Bourke: Yeah.
Daniëlle van 't Westeinde: Yeah. That's very important.
Matt Tucker: Yeah. Fantastic. Well, I really appreciate you giving your opinions. As I said, you guys are the future of this industry and I think it's important that we take your views on board.
And this is all part of the evolution of the industry. So thank you all. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Amazing. Well done.
Host: [00:15:00] Thanks for tuning into the Connected FM podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to rate and review the show because it really helps us reach more listeners just like you. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. See you next time.