Host Edward Wagoner talks with Dr. Winnie Kwofie about visibility in facility management, the underrepresentation of women and the value of diverse perspectives in leadership. Winnie shares her journey, the power of storytelling and the importance of fostering inclusive environments in the profession.
In this episode of IFMA's Connected FM podcast, host Edward Wagoner interviews Dr. Winnie Kwofie, a leader in facility management higher education. They discuss the importance of visibility in the profession, the underrepresentation of women and the need for diverse perspectives in leadership roles. Winnie shares her personal journey and the significance of storytelling in advocating for the profession. They also touch on cultural perceptions of facilities and the importance of creating inclusive environments for women in the industry.
00:00 Snippet
00:24 Welcome to Connected FM Podcast
01:14 Introducing Today's Guest: Dr. Winnie Kwofie
03:11 Dr. Winnie's Journey and Insights
05:16 Challenges and Opportunities in Facilities Management
09:15 Global Perspectives on Facilities Management
19:35 Uplifting Stories and Leadership
26:11 Rapid Fire Questions with Dr. Winnie
33:46 Conclusion
Sponsor:
This episode is sponsored by ODP Business Solutions!
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: [00:00:00] Facilities touch everybody from the day we're born to the day we even leave the world, right? If you're born in a hospital, there's somebody running the facilities.
If you leave the world, there's somebody running the facilities to make sure you laid to rest. We touch people everywhere in their life, and for me, being an influencer is all about making our profession very visible. Because most people really don't know what facilities about.
Host: Welcome to Connected fm, a podcast connecting you to the latest insights, tools, and resources to help you succeed in facility management. This podcast is brought to you by ifma, the leading professional association for facility managers. If you're ready to grow your network and advance in your career, go to ifma.org to get started.
Today, we're sharing the next installment of our top global FM influencer series hosting. This episode is Edward Wagoner, one of our recognized influencers with more than 30 [00:01:00] years in the real estate industry, including two decades as a technology executive. So we're gonna hand it over to him as he introduces today's guest.
Edward Wagoner: What's an IFMA Global influencer? Their a credible voice in facilities management, sharing expertise, shaping trends, connecting disciplines, advocating for innovation, and simplifying complex topics in the industry. These individuals help expand the influence of facilities management, and in doing so, our profession, today's guest is one of them.
A registered professional engineer, her decades of experience cover all aspects of facility management in both public and private institutions of higher education. Her work creating strategic partnerships across institutions has been named a best practice. Her energy and landscape plans are credited [00:02:00] with creating sustainable, accessible and pedestrian friendly campuses.
Her oversight of the construction of California State University East Bay Core Library and Braddock Center resulted in more than $4 million in savings. She has received two University of California at San Francisco Chancellor Awards and numerous awards for her service as a member of several boards for A PPA, as well as President of its Pacific Coast Region.
She became a writer, speaker, researcher, and presenter for facilities management and academic research. Her scholarship on multiple research projects emphasizes the critical contributions of facilities managers and recognizes their previously untold stories of accomplishment with experience in facilities at several institutions, including University of California, San Francisco, Stanford University, and California State University.
She is currently the [00:03:00] assistant vice President, facilities construction and operations at Texas Tech University. A global influencer, Dr. Winnie.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Well, thank you, Edward. I'm so happy to be here and really humbled for this honor.
Edward Wagoner: So I, I've read a lot about your background. I've read a lot of your, I tried reading your researchers an incredible body of research that you have put out in your career and I was thinking. What would you say to the world's facility managers?
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: I would say that, you know, for me, this is, you know, the work I do, the advocacy for facilities facilities touch everybody from the day we're born to the day we even leave the world, right? If you're born in a hospital, there's somebody running the facilities.
If you leave the world, there's somebody running the facilities to make sure you laid to rest. So. Everything in between. We touch people everywhere in their life, and for me, being an influencer is all about making our [00:04:00] profession very visible. Because most people really don't know what facilities about, which is what my research is about.
Even though my research really talked about the underrepresentation of black women in facilities, you know, you don't see folks like me in the leadership of facilities. But the real thing that was really fascinating to me was really. Looking at this great profession that I have come to love and not really having it as visible.
There was not that much research on this topic. And as Edward, you know, you know, if we don't research it, then the practice is not visible. So people wonder what we really do. And so this is, if the work is actually out there for the world to see and the world to appreciate who we are and what we do.
To support everybody else, then I think my work is going out there.
Edward Wagoner: It's, you know, I jotted down as you said it, you know, and I love it. Facilities are [00:05:00] everywhere and they touch everyone from the moment of birth. Until after our passing. And depending on where our body's put it may actually hold our bodies in, into perpetuity. And you know, I've never really I've.
Not thought about it from that particular perspective. I know facilities are everywhere, but as we're talking to people around the world about those facilities and whatnot, what are some things from your research that you think everyone involved in facilities should be aware of or maybe thinking about and broadening their thinking beyond what we would normally think about?
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Well, thank you for that question. I think for me it's more on how can we tell our story. I'm so excited that IFMA does such a phenomenal job, you know, across the globe, bringing facilities professionals together, educating facilities professional through professional development, and giving us opportunity to expand.
I think it's all about making us known. [00:06:00] Out there. my research, I call it a mosaic of professions, right? You see engineers, you see. Architects, you see planners, you have financial managers, you know, on and on. So it's this profession that is a mosaic of professions.
So the goal for me in looking at our profession is what is it that we can do to let people know who we are? Because we will still continue to be engineers and planners and architects, but who are we and how are we impacting the world that we live in? You know, I work in higher education and one of the things about my research, for instance, if I could go back there, is when I started looking at why is it so important to have women or black women in the leadership?
That was the question I asked. Well, if I look at higher education, for instance, we have more women as students, more women as employees. But then if you go and you look at who is leading facilities, that's [00:07:00] not represented, right? So as a business, we're missing out on being able to provide what is needed for the people that are living in that environment or inhabiting in that environment.
And so that's because the profession is so undefined. So you know, my job is that advocacy, telling the story of facilities so that we can start beginning to see each other as one unit of profession, even though we're still in mosaic, so that when we are having meetings and discussing issues, we can have that common language in facilities.
Edward Wagoner: I, there's so much that you just said that I just love and I'm trying to like, which, which question do I ask next? But I think one let me start with this. In the US facility management titles are pretty well defined. If I think about ifma being a global organization, as I talk to other chapters throughout the world, there are a lot of [00:08:00] people that work in facilities and just like you said, they don't think they're in facilities because they don't have that title.
But all of those job roles that you talked about that touch facilities, they are in fact a part of our facility management. Family, if you will, they can benefit from learning from ifma and from the things that we're talking about so that they can better deliver for their people. So I love that aspect that you mentioned.
You also, you know, we were talking about people who look like us and I did a quick little of statistic grab because again, the US has a high percentage of people who look like me, but we, people who look like me only make up 16% of the world's population. And so, there's so many job openings in facilities and if we want the best people, and especially in countries. Where? Where people who look like me are not in the majority. We have to attract people into our [00:09:00] industry.
So based on your research, what would you say to people who don't look like me, but should consider facilities management as a career? And they've not thought about that because they don't see people like themselves in the industry.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Well, great question and this is a, this is the part where a, culture of an A nation become an issue. Right. Until I, you know, I'm an immigrant, so until I was even in this country, I did not know what facilities was. I did not. I literally ended up in facilities by accident. I think you know, I put an article in, I said, it took me six years, right?
I was in a conference in Sacramento and I met these two gentlemen, and you know, you know, when you have those vendor good, you know, you go in you're looking at interesting toys to pick up and these two gentlemen go, oh, well, where do you work? And I talk about what, oh, you should join us.
You know, you do XY. And I'm going, what are they talking about? It didn't even ring a bell. Right? So it took me [00:10:00] almost six years to really identify this profession, right? And it was because I went to a conference and I heard people speak about things. I was doing challenges. I was doing similar, which allowed me to go, oops, I need to be in this right.
So if you go to most countries, facilities is looked at as more like a backend, right? Most people think facilities is the people who clean up the mess, right? Never as a profession where you have to think, right? The architects, the engineers and all that, they don't want to be related in a way to facilities because they don't see themselves that we, because of that definition, right?
But if we start looking at definition the whole broad sense that if my is doing in this 130 countries, for example, and we help them see the profession in its no bonus if I could use that, you know, and help them understand their contribution. Right. So yes, you are an architect, but your contribution to this example, when you are [00:11:00] designing for school, why is it important to engage those people who do clean?
Because you don't wanna put flooring that will bring you more dust and chew up the vacuums and x-ray, you know, those kind of things. Why would you want to engage the maintenance group? Because you want your h back to work, right? Why do you want to, you know. So if you start thinking broadly and not in the hierarchical way that we've seen facilities be, but you look at it as a profession where every person is a contributor, no matter what you do, then it changes that conversation So it's the same thing that if we don't put those stories out there for people and educate them, then they are going to continue to see facilities as this limited way, even though it's broad in a sense and that I think is the big challenge that we have in actually promoting facilities to areas [00:12:00] like where I come from, where we want people to start looking at this profession from a different perspective.
Edward Wagoner: And you used the word mosaic earlier, and I love that word. And as you were talking, I was thinking, you know, a mosaic is the sum of all of the little pieces that make it up. And that means every function is important.
I actually started my career. Cleaning toilets for a facility management company. This was pre-college, but that was my first introduction to facilities. And to this day, I appreciate when I walk into a facility and see how clean it is, because I know what it takes. And let's face it, the most beautiful facility in the world.
Nobody's gonna wanna be in it if we don't have the cleaners in there doing their jobs. And so that's just as important as our architects, our executives, our IT people. And I love that you. I mentioned that. Based on your research, are there different [00:13:00] lessons that you would tell people in Europe or Asia or Africa compared to the US or are there just some universal truths about considering facility management as a career?
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Well, I think you on a universal stage, right, the dynamics have been the same. So I did read a lot of articles and research, you know, very limited research by the way. There's not that much research, but the ones that have come out globally show that it is still a very male dominated profession.
I think that is an area that we really have an opportunity to really change. Right? And that is important because think about how we have evolved as a people, whether you are in the US or you are not. Right? Women are coming into the workplace.
We're still having challenges about creating a workplace where women can work. You know, if you're a woman and you're a mother [00:14:00] and you are in a workplace. It's a, it is a different story because it's not set up for you. So I'll give you an example when I did a program for a system, a university system, and here's a story, you know, from one of the participants.
And it really, every time I hear the story, I'm like, that's exactly what's going. So she was on a construction site, she was the construction project manager. And she observed, you know, first of all, she participated in this program, which it was all about the awareness of the profession. We do, the beauty of the profession we do, and encouraging them to just, you know, look for opportunities like you're saying, look for opportunities to lead in the facilities to be a whatever you can contribute.
So, so she told me the story of being on the site and what she had seen, and she had not paid attention before. We had this conversation, what she saw was that the women had their parties way out, way up somewhere where they had to, on break time, that's where they would go. The men had the parties right [00:15:00] on the side.
So of course if there are more men, you know, you're looking at it. So you'll see businesses, more people, you know, that kind. But this is one thing that she observed. She said there was a mother. Somebody had just become a mother and she would have to go there, and that was what she was kind of, her nursing needs was done in this party that's out there.
And so often she's late, right? Her break time is to eat lunch, get a little bit risk, come back. If you're a mother, you are eating lunch, your nursing needs, and then, so you have four or five things you gotta do, right? The workplace is not set up for you. So every time she returned, her superintendent was not here because she goes, why are you licked?
You always late. So this lady, after we had this conversation about how the workplace can improve, if we all bring our perspective, went to this guy and said, you know, the men just go in and out, have lunch, have rest, right? So they're prepared for the second half of the day. The [00:16:00] women don't have any because they have to use most of the time to walk.
That's the workplace we have. So on the global scene, this is something that we have to look at. But again, there's also, remember that cultural boundaries, right? Where in places where men are perceived as leaders and women are more, you know, like contributors, right? So. When we're talking about profession in that manner, we have to look at leadership training in a different way, right?
Because we are coming in for people to see who we are and what we are doing as contributors. It's not about coming in to say, well, we, women can, you know, it's making the space more accessible, let me say, so that professional women, when they come into the workplace, they can also contribute right else.
We are not benefiting because we have more women getting to the workplace right now. So [00:17:00] you are making us all push to this limited time and giving everybody else more time. So I think that's, that would be where I would see on the global scene is something that we need to think about.
Edward Wagoner: And, you know, as you talked, I was thinking, you know, your comments were geared toward our profession, but everything you said actually applies to the broader workforce, especially with the war for talent. Everyone talking about, you know, AI is going to change everything. Also just from having read your research I pulled some stats to make sure I had some information.
I was actually shocked at this, but if you think about women are about 50% of the global population. I just pulled that stat from a UN report.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Yeah. Now?
Edward Wagoner: But there are countries where women outnumber the men.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Yes.
Edward Wagoner: It's not the countries I would've thought the US is on that list. Brazil, Mexico, France, Poland, Italy, Japan, Spain.
There's a big long list of what we would typically [00:18:00] think as you know, leaders in the global economy. And so if we're in a war for talent, if we need these leaders, if we've got this constant change, we're missing a huge opportunity. If we're not attracting half the world's population to consider us, and in these cases the majority of our country's population, to consider us as an opportunity where they can succeed.
But speaking of succeeding in reading some of your research, and again, there's a lot of incredible research that you've published, but I noticed in one of them the stories that you tell with your research. It's very uplifting. It's not like some stories that you read that's like, you know, telling people everything they've done wrong and how to do it differently.
It's stories of success. I was reading it and I was like, I want to know these people. I want to be like these people. Talk a little bit about that approach, that uplifting approach that you've taken.
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Dr. Winnie Kwofie: So the way I wanted to approach this research was from what you exactly said, uplifting, right? Because for me, when you work in a space where you don't have representation. Right. I am usually the only black woman, the only woman in that space.
You know, there's so many things that you are going to. You know, work [00:20:00] against, right? It is I've been in places. There's a story where I was on site with my team and we've met this team before, like this construction team. And so we were just going into the trailer. I walked in a guy's like, Hey, who are you?
And it's common than people think, right? You know, the many times I'm asked, who are you? Or whatever, you don't belong. This is common. So. If I spend my research talking about that story, you know, I've actually missed out because the fact that I'm in it and the fact that today my research is influencing the world means I did something different.
And the part was look at what are the things that I've done to be a contributor. And so when I was interviewing my participants, I was looking for that. I was looking at, you've been in the space where you are the only. But you're still being able to move, you're still being able to be a contributor.
You're still being able to call a leader of this [00:21:00] organization, tell me what that story is. Right. And I found that they had a different way of leading, because most of our leadership box, I mean every, you know, it's very generic. It doesn't really, it's like, well, you know, self be self-control. You know, self-awareness, self.
All those things were there, but more because for me as an engineer, I look at things from, let's say I have to build a retaining wall for you, Edward. Right? When I'm building the retaining wall, I'm building to retain the pressure that comes on the wall. Now, if the wall goes over or fails, it means the pressure outside the wall.
It is higher. That's why the ball could not resist. So what I look at these people, I look at them in, how are you overcoming that resistance? What kind of leadership skills allow you to do such a phenomenal job in a place [00:22:00] where the environment is not even accessible for you to operate? Right? And that is the uplifting story, right?
Because they knew they were in that space, so they didn't spend most of their time trying to. Fight against what is there. What they spend their time to do was to be contributors and they spend their time taking care of themselves and making sure, you know, Hey, I went to this space and they told me I don't belong.
Do I come in and just tear myself apart or do I think about it and say, you know, because they haven't seen a person like me. So how am I going to help them understand who I am and what I do and what I contribute? So that was their story, like that care for where they are, that consciousness of understanding where they are and yet being able to go beyond those leadership traditional leadership skills.
We talk about, you know, and I used the [00:23:00] word, the act of leadership, so I was demonstrating what that looks like. Right, not living in that resistant, you know, space, but being able to contribute and focus on what you contribute.
Being able to take care of yourself, take care of yourself mentally, emotionally, physically, right? Because those things will wear you down. Are you going to allow it where you're going to be different about it? And then coming up with a language. A way to contribute, right. Not talk about, you know, that story of all the pain, but talking about the stories of success, you know, and staying on that to be able to be a positive contributor overall.
So that was kind of, so thank you for sharing that about the uplifting. So let me ask you, what was your favorite gallery?
Edward Wagoner: What was my favorite? What?
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: What was your favorite? You know what one story where you saw, yeah.
Edward Wagoner: Yeah it's. [00:24:00] What resonated with me in reading some of those stories was not a particular story, but it was the fact that while I am white male, the lessons resonated with me. There. There's a message in there for all of us, and as you were talking, I was thinking about every single one of us from the person that just joined facilities management today to the one that's been in the industry for 40 years.
We should all learn how to better tell our stories about our contributions, and we all have opportunities to be more active in our leadership regardless of whether you're in a leadership role or not. And so that was one of the takeaways that I had is that, that people who maybe historically have not had an advantage or at a severe disadvantage, if they can do that, all of us can do that.
The other thing that resonated with me as I thought about it when I started in the industry, everyone looked like me. [00:25:00] Fortunately, some of the firms recognized that if they were going to serve the world's population and have the best talent they needed to expand, you know, their talent attraction.
And I was just thinking as you were talking. So I benefited from some incredible women that JLL brought into leadership positions. But not only that, I was just thinking through some of the women that started around the same time I did that are now leaders at C-B-R-E-J-L-L, Cushman and Wakefield, Cressa, Evanson and Young, and I'm thinking of people by name right now that I have watched their careers as they've grown.
They've outpaced me, if you will. They are incredible examples. And so while the industry has more, it needs to do on a worldwide basis, just looking at where we've come just in, in my career gives me hope. And the uplifting stories that you talk about I think should give people an example that maybe haven't considered facility [00:26:00] management, but maybe look at these stories and there's an opportunity and there's room for you to contribute and.
Industry, the mosaic of facility management.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Yes. I like it.
Edward Wagoner: I could talk to you all day, but Winnie the staff at ifma, give me a set of rapid fire questions.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Okay.
Edward Wagoner: So, you've just been named an IFMA Global influencer who influences you?
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: I would say the person who influenced me most is my father, and there were two things that really influenced me, that my dad was a pharmacist, and one of thing I saw with him was he made his profession impact.
It wasn't about being a pharmacist, it wasn't about the prestige of being a pharmacist, but it was the way he would support people around him. It didn't matter who you were, it didn't matter whether you were in power, you didn't have power, whatever it is. My dad was this kind person [00:27:00] who used this profession to support and help people, and he was grateful for that.
And for me, that has been one area of my life that I've always come back to, that I'm not doing this profession just because I'm doing it because there's people that whose life depends on it, right? If I don't clean the space, somebody could lose a life, right?
And my dad would give you medication or read your lab results, but that wasn't me. Mine is creating that space for people to come in and thrive in that space.
Edward Wagoner: I Love that. I kind of asked this one a little bit earlier, but let's get an expanded answer. What would you say to someone searching for a new role who is not considering real estate or facility management?
And, you know, if the answer's different depending on the part of the world that you're in, I would really love to know what advice you would give to people around the world if it would vary depending on location.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Well, I would say why not? You know, I think I [00:28:00] like the story of you talking about a m, right? It's many pieces, but it's not perfect. Right. And the question is, why not? Because to me, facilities offers more, opportunities more. It doesn't matter where you start from, you know, I actually, when we did this program to, you know, support women coming to facilities, one of the exercises was, tell me your first degree.
When I did my research, I asked my participant, what is your first degree? Nobody came from facility. Zero. Right? So think about it. It means that no matter what profession you are aspiring to, there's a path in facilities for you. Think about finance, right? Edward, you mentioned real estate. Oh my. Think about all the financial analysis you gotta do.
Right. So if you want to do finance, you want to do, become a risk manager. Whatever you wanna do, facilities provide you with that opportunity to actually build that [00:29:00] skill. And not only are you building that because you are working with different people, you're building the ability to collaborate.
Edward Wagoner: I, I love that and I also thought as you were talking I think about my experience, the exposure that I received to so many different industries, working with their facilities. I'm often shocked that people are shocked how much I know about certain industries that I haven't really worked in.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Yes,
Edward Wagoner: You learn about those industries when you support the buildings and the people that are working in those. And so I think that's another broad exposure that, you know, people don't think about with facilities.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: it is
Edward Wagoner: kind of a related question, and it's a bit of what we've talked about, but what can we, all of us individually, but also we as an industry do to attract more women to the facility management population?
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: I would say walk your facilities, walk the facilities and ask the question. Do we [00:30:00] have the setup to even bring more women? So I was this institution, education institution, and we had an administrator and she wanted us to do a walk because we were looking at, you know, how can we make sure that our facilities was accessible for everybody?
So one of my team members was a guy. And then this administrator was a woman, so when we get to the women's restroom, I would go in and make sure that it's empty so we can bring everybody in and we're looking. And so when we get to the men's, we'll have my, you know, the, my team member go in clear, make sure, so we go into the women's room first, right?
So that's our baseline. And so we are having this conversation and we go to the men's room. You won't believe it. Bigger. So first it didn't rank, so we went building one. Then we went building two, and then went building three. So the administrator look at me and go. Did you know, and I'm going, well, what are you asking?
What question? What did I know? He goes, [00:31:00] Winnie, the men's room is way bigger than the women's. I'm like, not surprised. He goes, so what is your explanation for that? I'm like, maybe men need to pee more. Whatever. I dunno. Well, but it was funny because I was shocked. I was so shocked. But then. I started looking for research papers about this.
So, Edward surprise, the House of Congress. Look at the demographics in there. The men's restroom next to the house, the women's down the hall. There was a researcher who found that out. You know, walk around anywhere, airports when you get out the plane. Who is queuing and who is not? Go to the movie theater, go to the stadium.
So this is there, right? It means that the people that are making the decisions don't include women. So for us to make sure that we're changing that it means that [00:32:00] when we're doing our design, you should have those perspective represented in leadership. So they can contribute to, hey, you know, what is the statistics like you're looking at, okay, if we have 55% student population that are female, do we have the resources to support them?
What is the demographics, right? Do we have a lot of mothers in our employees? Do we have facilities to support nursing matters? Because you want them to be productive. So all those things are part of the ways we can bring women in, you know, and we have to be intentional about it.
Edward Wagoner: If I were to create a headline, it's if I want to see more people like are in the world, in facilities, I need to look. Through their eyes, not just through my eyes.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Yes.
Edward Wagoner: And that's very powerful. Thank you for sharing that. Let's go to a fun [00:33:00] question. What's one thing you love about the facilities management profession?
Just one thing.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: I love the fact that I am in a space where there's every profession I can think of, you know, under the sun. Every time I ask people around me, where have you come from? I love it. I love it. I love it because it's not a boring space at all, right? You get to meet so many people from different walks of life and different professional.
I love it. That to me is the beauty of the facilities profession.
Edward Wagoner: I tell people, look out the window. Every building you see that's not someone's home is a facility. And there's different experiences. There's different uses. There's people from different backgrounds. . I'm full of gratitude for you agreeing to do this interview and for all that you've done and shared with us, and then for the kind, generous way that you have influenced all of us.
[00:34:00] Grateful for you in your time. Dr. Winnie Kwofie. Thank you so much and again, congratulations on being named a global influencer.
Dr. Winnie Kwofie: Thank you so much Edward. So grateful for you and grateful for the IFMA community for letting me be part of a contributing community. Thank you.
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