In part one of this week's show, Laurie Gilmer, President and COO at Facility Engineering Associates, as well as the immediate past chair of the IFMA Global Board, engages in a thought provoking conversation with Paul Cartwright, Deputy Director of the NHS, and Kas Mohammed, Vice President for Digital Energy in the UK and Ireland at Schneider Electric. Together, they share their insightful journey towards net zero, emphasizing the criticality of involving stakeholders, tracking progress, and embracing cutting edge technologies.
In part one of this week's show, Laurie Gilmer, President and COO at Facility Engineering Associates, as well as the immediate past chair of the IFMA Global Board, engages in a thought provoking conversation with Paul Cartwright, Deputy Director of the NHS. And Kas Mohammed, Vice President for Digital Energy in the UK and Ireland at Schneider Electric.
Together, they share their insightful journey towards net zero, emphasizing the criticality of involving stakeholders, tracking progress, and embracing cutting edge technologies.
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Kas Mohammed: [00:00:00] Are you digitizing enough that you really understand how you're building and your assets are performing and that you can ultimately drive some efficiency going forward out of that as well. And then you're driving kind of data driven. Goal driven success as well to measure that.
Host: Welcome to Connected FM, a podcast connecting you to the latest insights, tools, and resources to help you succeed in facility management. This podcast is brought to you by IFMA, [00:00:30] the leading professional association for facility managers. If you are ready to grow your network and advance in your career, Go to IFMA.
org to get started. In part one of this week's show, Laurie Gilmer, President and COO at Facility Engineering Associates, as well as the immediate past IFMA Global Board, engages in a thought provoking conversation with Paul Cartwright, Deputy Director of the NHS. And Kaz Mohammed, Vice President for Digital Energy in the UK and Ireland at Schneider Electric.
Together they share [00:01:00] their insightful journey towards net zero, emphasizing the criticality of involving stakeholders, tracking progress, and embracing cutting edge technologies. Now, let's get into it.
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Laurie Gilmer: Welcome everyone to our session on Achieving Net Zero in Three Steps Strategies for Facility Professionals. There is an obvious need for sustainability and decarbonization with electrification and digitalization being major drivers for Net Zero. It's a huge topic these days. So today during our session, [00:02:00] we're going to learn from two experts on why decarbonizing operations was once revered as a nice to have, but it's now become more of a must do.
And we'll talk about the main reasons that facility managers We need to become one of the main stakeholders in the transformation of how to make this happen in a very practical way. We're going to learn from one hospital and how one hospital in the UK made it, what their experience was in their team, and lessons learned that can be shared with us and things that we can learn for [00:02:30] ourselves.
I'm Lori Gilmer. I'm the IFMA Global Chair. I'm also a professional engineer in my private life, and I'm excited to be joined by a couple of experts. So, Paul, we're going to start with you.
Paul Cartwright: Hi, thanks, Lori. My name is Paul Coltridge. I'm a Deputy Director of Estates and Facilities in the NHS, National Health Service.
I work for Moorfields Eye Hospital. We're at quite a small little hospital, a small part of such a big thing as the NHS. My [00:03:00] role is, we have about 30 properties that I manage across a sort of mixed bag of the estate. We've got some relatively new staff. We've got some pretty old staff and pretty much every in between.
And that is really, I suppose, where through my responsibilities of life cycle management, I have to forward plan. And that is really where I'm looking to align where I'm going with the wider and anxious greener agenda. [00:03:30] And obviously how that plays out with the statutory obligations and also the desire to get green toward net zero.
Laurie Gilmer: Thanks so much, Paulo. Can you ask you.
Kas Mohammed: Yeah, so I'm Kaz Mohammed. I'm the vice president for digital energy in the UK and Ireland at Schneider Electric. Ultimately, we work with a wide range of customers, primarily in the kind of building spacing, including Paul in healthcare, but also across universities, data centers, real [00:04:00] estate, hotels, and stadia to name a few.
And the technology that we work with is primarily around that kind of building space. We're talking here about BMS and control systems. We're talking about metering and SCADA and the digital kind of aspects that all come with that.
Laurie Gilmer: There's excellent introductions. We're going to set the stage for just a second.
And probably most of you have heard it, but we're going to go ahead and repeat it. 37 percent of our CO2 emissions are coming from our buildings. That's a [00:04:30] significant percentage. And it makes our workplaces and our homes some of the biggest CO2 contributors. So Kaz, why is the retrofit of current buildings a must have?
Kas Mohammed: I
think when you consider the challenge that we've got to ultimately reduce these carbon emissions and the agendas that have been set out and a lot of commitments around net zero, we start to consider, okay, we can do some dramatic things with respect to new buildings and having the kind of latest and [00:05:00] greatest.
But actually, uh, a significant amount of the stock that exists today. So around 50 percent we see will remain by 2050. So if we consider that actually there's already a level of emissions that are associated with that 50%, then we've really got to have a look at how do we retrofit. Over that period of time, how do we renovate and improve that building stock ready for that kind of path towards net zero.
And it's really important that we understand how that [00:05:30] decarbonization journey takes place and how we can do it over a period of time and not something that's just easily done kind of overnight. And you can see there on the slide that ultimately we've got to achieve. Around three times more projects in retrofitting and renovation to meet their net zero commitments and targets over the next sort of 30 years or so.
Laurie Gilmer: Very good. Thank you very much. So becoming net zero is, it's definitely a must have. Because how can facility professionals justify accelerating the [00:06:00] process? That three X goal is a, that's a big one.
Kas Mohammed: Yeah. So I think there's other trends and other kind of benefits to the path that we're talking about here.
I mean, ultimately we can see there's a trend around compliance and what is being looked at in, in various different geographies, so. There are EU directives now where we are lowering the amount of controls or the amount of controls that need to go into a, a kind of smaller front pin. BRI building is coming on [00:06:30] board, so we're seeing now the need for controls.
We're seeing the need for metering and understanding how a building is performing in a much smaller, medium sized building. Whereas before a lot of that legislation was set around some of the large building stock we see here in the UK in particular around buildings which are tenanted. That there is a requirement around an Energy Performance Certificate, and that Energy Performance Certificate comes out as a rating, and we've just hit the marker where basically, if you have a [00:07:00] tenanted building, it needs to be a rating of at least an E rating, and over the next six, seven years, that is going to move up to a B rating.
So we can see there that in the next six, seven years, there is a need for our building owners to ultimately upgrade and update some of their buildings going forward. We're also then the other aspects here where we're talking about price, and I think we've all felt this. In particular in, in, in Europe, but around the world where we've seen the shift in, in energy prices [00:07:30] in the last 12 months or so, and, you know, in some cases, times two times three, so actually through a process of retrofitting technology through a process of improving performance of the building.
We can see a real benefit in the actual cost of running that building over the long term. And then other aspects around just our expectations of what we expect out of a building. I think that this has changed and altered and especially with the generation that are coming in now and they're demanding a much healthier [00:08:00] space, a much more engaging and connectable space as well to ultimately work and live in.
And we're going to see, I think, more of a shift around this with respect to people and where they ultimately get employed. And how they kind of move forward in their careers. And then just finally, I think this inefficiency topic. So if we really crap the code and make buildings smarter and more efficient and more connected, then ultimately there should be a better working life for the people that manage them, [00:08:30] buildings that met the people that ultimately look after them and maintain them just because out of the back of it, we'll see operational performance.
Laurie Gilmer: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Kaz. Paul, can you tell us a little bit more about Moorland's Eye Hospital and what were the main reasons that your facility started this journey toward net zero?
Paul Cartwright: I think I'd like to start with saying, we should all be doing it, but if that was the only answer, it would be a relatively simple one, but just because it's related to everything, because there is some legislation.
[00:09:00] And the NHS is no different, but you know, each trust has a contract with the centre to perform, and one of those current targets is on the greener agenda, and the NHS has made quite a bold statement in its ambitious net zero targets. And as a provider within the NHS, we've got to work with them to get to those targets.
Now, the NHS and the wider healthcare industry covers medicine production, it's [00:09:30] got, you know, masses of patient and staff transportation. I mean, just ourselves alone, we're managing somewhere in the region of a thousand patient journeys a day. So that's one area that we should be looking at. Go back to where my sort of passion's line.
I know what? Carbon footprint is nearer to 20 percent because we've got a lot of it going elsewhere. That 20 percent is still a [00:10:00] significant amount of emissions. And so, with a building energy issue that's creating those high volumes of carbon dioxide equivalencies, we've got to start to look at why. And the main sort of area that I've got to deal with is an aged building stock.
And moving on from there, obviously, a net zero build has got to be great for achieving those carbon emissions. It certainly [00:10:30] provides an attractive route to the NHS because when you've got edgy buildings they don't look great either. They can look very nice and it's also aiding the care and I'm not, I'm not a medic in any way shape or form but it's aiding that care if the facilities look great and we can paint them but it's behind the scenes where the energy costs need a looking at.
Cass mentioned workers as well and We've got workers who want to be in sustainable buildings, but [00:11:00] I would also expand that to say that we've also got people who want to work on the sustainable buildings. And if we think about, sort of, some of the ages stock that I deal with, it's not attractive. I mean, I go back to when I started my career and steam and, you know, oil were things.
Well, you know, our younger generations, these are things they see museums, you know, cultural and mind hospitals, you know, they are trying to attract them into that type of [00:11:30] industry. And I think he's, he's going to be difficult. Actually, if you can, you know, convert that with the use of technology, with digitization, with getting some controls in some of that old kit, suddenly it becomes much more techy.
Lastly, I think we've also got to mention energy, of course. Look, certainly the cost of energy. As a context, in the last financial year, I was presented with, with a cost pressure of just over a million pounds for increases in [00:12:00] electricity and gas, you know, across my utilities. That's, that was up, you know, a base of, you know, somewhere around about 40 odd percent.
We purchased well, okay, but we still got hit by, by those increasing costs. So, it's not surprising now that suddenly we've got, we've got those CFOs and our chief financial officers. I'm actually starting to pay attention to energy bills now, and they were saying from my perspective, what that actually means in energy management, and even [00:12:30] metering strategies.
So that's why we were heading down that route is we've got to, we should do, and we need to. And that's really why we're going down it.
Laurie Gilmer: Absolutely. Great detail there. Thank you so much for that. So Kez, I'm going to pivot over to you and let's talk about what we can do to achieve net zero.
Kas Mohammed: Yeah, so I think we, we believe ultimately that there's kind of two sides to it.
So one is ultimately about the [00:13:00] energy itself, you know, where are we kind of getting that from? And here we talk about a future which is much more electric. So if we consider maybe a few kind of examples here of. You know, our vehicle transitions and we're seeing that we're having kind of one of the largest fuel transitions ever in history with the move from things like diesel and petrol to ultimately electric vehicles and the infrastructure and the support that all kind of requires, but ultimately we're taking carbon.
Out of the system, [00:13:30] we're taking that kind of view that we've got the same thing happening in some of the buildings landscape here. So, you know, traditionally in cold climate countries or mixed climate countries, we've got gas being used as a kind of primary heating source. Very much in the UK, we have this, and now we're seeing this bigger shift towards heat pumps.
Things like air source heat pumps and ground source heat pumps. And we're seeing that ship kind of come into the mix. So we believe that electricity is kind of key to that. Then the flip side [00:14:00] is about the efficiency. So how do we make it more efficient? You know, as Paul kind of mentioned it there, how do we make things more visible and actionable as well, ultimately.
And here we talk about digitization. So, you know, historically we might well have had lots of different infrastructure on a site. Some of it well, could have well been connected, but a lot of it would have sat standalone, would have sat maybe in a manual process. How do we digitize some of that? And how do we build the kind of tools that show you how to manage [00:14:30] that going forward?
And ultimately bringing them two together is where we see the ultimate recipe to drive towards a much more sustainable and efficient builder. And I think as we kind of zoom in on things, so if we move to, to, to the next piece here, which is around. The kind of three step approach. So we've worked with around 50 percent of the Fortune 500 companies.
And we wanted to try and understand how are they addressing [00:15:00] the ultimate challenge of making their buildings more sustainable and efficient going forward. And they've kind of come up with, and what we're seeing is this theme as, and then we've curtailed it into three different areas. There is a piece around ultimately, firstly, strategizing.
So really understanding what are you looking as the overall outcome? What are you looking to achieve? Who in your organization needs to be part of that kind of plan? So who are them kind of key stakeholders? And how are you going to measure kind of success and some of the [00:15:30] milestones along the way? Then it kind of goes on to, okay, well, what's your baseline?
How are you performing today? Really? You know, are you digitizing enough that you really understand how you're building and your assets are performing? And that you can ultimately drive some efficiency going forward out of that as well. And then you're driving kind of data driven goals and data driven success as well to measure that.
And then finally is that last piece to decarbonize what you have. So you're left with [00:16:00] then, okay, inefficient areas where you can work on how do I make that more efficient? Is it just optimization of what I've got already or is it something where I need to ultimately shift and change? Some of the technology or the assets that I've got on site and leveraging this and keep going around in that kind of circle is ultimately what we're seeing a lot of the larger organizations start to do and move along these kinds of three steps.
Laurie Gilmer: Very good. Thank you very much. So, so as we think about those three steps, let's sort of zoom in a little bit further on those. [00:16:30] They can seem maybe a little bit theoretical to some, how would you, what would you recommend to our audience, Kaz? What tangible actions could they take to implement each of these steps?
Kas Mohammed: Yeah. So I think if we start with the strategy and piece, so tracking and probably having an idea of where you want to get to might be easier for some, might be more difficult for others. But you know, as Paul's mentioned there. Actually at a government level, at a UK organization level, there is an ambition to get to a certain level.
[00:17:00] So straight away, you've got kind of a target there, maybe inside. Then it kind of comes down to, okay, who do I need to bring on board to determine how we're going to get there and what some of the milestones are in our organization. And I think this is where, again, it is shifting a little bit with respect to some of the stakeholders we would have wanted to engage with.
This would have been probably sat as part of the energy manager, maybe the director of estate. Well, you're now talking at a CFO level, the engagement there, you're talking other roles within the [00:17:30] business, some of the P and L owners and what have you in a business that will be kind of part of this because they believe is what kind of linked them to the business value that they can generate going down the line.
I think that the baselining of where you're at today is really important. It's recognizing maybe what work has already taken place. And where you've got to then kind of generate, okay, what's my short term and longer term and a plan look like. And then it's being very clear on what are the other benefits that you're going to get out of the, the kind of [00:18:00] planning going forward.
So if for instance, you know, maybe a digital kind of infrastructure, you might think in the first sight, it's going to benefit you from measuring how your building's performing, but it could give you improved. Operational performance. It could allow you to maybe extend the life of some of your assets on site because you know how well they're performing, you can react quicker to the ones that need more help and rather than just kind of systematically planning everything, they put help and resources.
So I [00:18:30] think having more of that and deep diving into them pieces is, is really important as well.
Laurie Gilmer: Paul, could you talk to us a little bit about how the hospital approached this particular step?
Paul Cartwright: Yeah, sure. When we took the route of create, uh, a carbon reduction plan to integrate that into what we call a modernization program.
We have got life cycle planning. We understand when things have got a finite life to them. What we wanted [00:19:00] to do was to actually understand from a carbon aspect how modernization was going to impact on that as well. Now, I mentioned like the CFO earlier on retweets strategies and I approached him and I said, look, I want to demonstrate to you a roadmap.
Like I really do want to show to you that not only is there potentially cost savings down the road, but there's also a carbon savings. And if we do this, we can [00:19:30] achieve both at the same time. So that was something that we started to do. And of course, getting to those baselines, like Kaz mentioned, there are also these investments.
And obviously that was the other reason why I was talking to him, really, was because I needed him to understand that we needed to have some funding up front to be able to create those baselines. We were, you know, pretty lucky in that we had good data building level. [00:20:00] And through another project that he was involved in with the Cassandra Agency as well, that But then with us was through the theaters project, we'd got some pretty good granular detail and I was able to show if we went from this one meter in a building to a number of meters in place, then we would get much better data.
But from that, we'd be able to create a much richer improvement program. So, that was really the first thing that [00:20:30] we did, was a carbon reduction plan and aligning it to that sort of CFO plan. Because, ultimately, you know, we all say the COO and the Chief Exec and all that are in power. But it's generally the person with the first triggers, isn't it?
We also wanted to see what was available and where the future might be. And an example of CHPs. We've got bio heat and power plants. They're gas fired and they're generating electricity. And we, you know, the [00:21:00] heat by product is being utilized to bolster our LPHW and our heating systems. Now, they're gas fired.
So, you know, they're not on our, you know, green agenda. We want to get rid of them at some stage, you know, rid of those fossil fuels. The next best thing, I suppose, coming along the line is hydrogen. They're not here yet. Those hydrogen CHPs are not here yet. So, we've got them on our plan. [00:21:30] What I would suggest is that you put it on your plan for a future project.
start to build up a case for it. So keep up to date with the technology and then when it's ready, make your case.
Host: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you really enjoyed this episode. And as always, please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast for more incredible [00:22:00] content.